In the minutes: Sebastopol Agenda Item Number 1 DRAFT City Council Meeting Minutes of October 6 2026, surveillance camera (Oct 6)

Agenda Item Number 1

CITY COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Regular Meeting of Tuesday, October 6, 2026
6:00 pm Start Time
As Approved by the City Council at their regular meeting of October 20, 2026.
CALL TO ORDER: Mayor McLewis called the meeting to order 6:01 p.m.
ROLL CALL:
Present:

Absent:
Staff:

Mayor Jill McLewis
Vice Mayor Sandra Maurer
Councilmember Phill Carter
Councilmember Neysa Hinton
Councilmember Stephen Zollman
None
Mary Gourley, City Manager
Alex Mog, City Attorney, Redwood Public Law
Administrative Services Director Ana Kwong
Building Official Steve Brown
Police Chief Sean McDonagh
Public Works Director Oriana Hart

REMOTE PARTICIPATION:
None
SALUTE TO THE FLAG
Mayor McLewis led the salute to the flag.
LAND ACKNOWLEDGEMENT: The City of Sebastopol acknowledges that we live and work within the unceded
ancestral homelands of the Southern Pomo and the Coast Miwok people. We pay our respect to the past, present,
and future generations of these peoples, including the Federated Indians of Graton Rancheria.
REMEMBERING THE HISTORY OF SEBASTOPOL: None
PROCLAMATIONS/PRESENTATIONS/INTRODUCTIONS:
The following were presented:
• Recognition of 5 Years of Service Award – Peter Stinksi
• Proclamation: Proclaiming October 2026 as Domestic Violence Awareness Month and Recognizing the
YWCA Sonoma County for providing vital resources for local residents experiencing domestic violence.
• Proclamation: Proclaiming Zero Waste Week
• Proclamation: Recognizing October Breast Cancer Awareness Month
Minute Order Number:
2026-253
STATEMENTS OF CONFLICTS OF INTEREST: Conflicts of interest may arise in situations where a public official deliberating
towards a decision, has an actual or potential financial interest in the matter before the Council. In accordance with state law, an
actual conflict of interest is one that would be to the private financial benefit of a public official, a relative or a business with which
the Councilmember is associated. A potential conflict of interest is one that could be to the private financial benefit of a
Councilmember, a relative or a business with which the Councilmember is associated. A Councilmember must publicly announce
potential and actual conflicts of interest, and, in the case of actual conflict of interest, must refrain from participating in debate on
the issue or from voting on the issue and must remove themselves from the dais. NONE

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Agenda Item Number 1

PUBLIC COMMENT FOR ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA (FIRST COMMENT PERIOD): Up to Twenty (20) Minute Time Limit
(Two Minutes for up to ten speakers). Additional public comment will be held at the end of the discussion and action items for up
to an additional twenty (20) minutes. Mayor has discretion to allow for additional time beyond the 20 minutes allocated for public
comment dependent upon the subject matter or number of speakers.
Process for calling on Speakers: Mayor or designee shall ask for public comment as follows: Speakers to be called on in an
alternate manner (One speaker in person to be called on first; then one speaker remote to be called on second with additional
speakers to be called on in the same manner) based upon the time limit.
The following member(s) of the public spoke during public comment for items not on the agenda:
Shawn Paul
Lee

Discussed AB 1033
Illegal cost allocations/rate payers paying/refund for City Attorney fees/$5.5 M from grand
jury report/rate payers borrowing money
Domestic Violence Awareness Month Proclamation
Approach to right the past/none been responsible for brining forward the recommendations
of the EFOC; Discussed City charge anther loan to the rate payers

Carrie
Kyle

CONSENT CALENDAR: The consent agenda consists of items that are routine in nature and do not require additional discussion by the City

Council or have been reviewed by the City Council previously. These items may be approved by one motion without discussion unless a member of
the City Council requests that the item be taken off the consent calendar.
The Mayor will read aloud the title of each consent item (either full agenda title or a simplified version of the agenda title), and ask if a
Councilmember wishes to remove one or more items from the consent calendar; and then open public comment to the members of the public in
attendance. At this time, a member of the public may speak for up to two (2) minutes on the entire consent calendar and request at that time that
an item or items removed for discussion.
If an item or items are removed from the consent calendar, the item shall be placed at the end of the regular agenda items unless otherwise
determined by the Mayor. Council Members may comment on Consent Calendar items or ask for minor clarifications without the need for pulling
the item for separate consideration. Items requiring deliberation should be pulled for separate consideration and shall be placed at the end of the
regular agenda items unless otherwise determined by the Mayor.

Mayor McLewis read the consent calendar.
Mayor McLewis asked if any Councilmember wanted to remove a consent calendar item.
Mayor McLewis opened for public comment. The following member(s) of the public spoke during public comment:
Lisa
Member of the public
Kyle
Steve
Lee

Discussed Item Number 5
Agenda Item
Pull Items 3, 5, and 6
Item 5
Grant to look at Pleasant Hill Loop; same way reimagining downtown as worked out

Mayor McLewis pulled Item 5 for a separate vote.
Mayor McLewis called for a motion.
MOTION:
Carter moved and McLewis seconded the motion to approve consent calendar items 1, 2, 3, 4, & 6.
Mayor McLewis called for a roll call vote. City staff conducted a roll call vote.
VOTE:
Ayes:
Noes:
Absent:
Abstain:

Councilmembers Carter, Hinton, Zollman, Vice Mayor Maurer and Mayor McLewis
None
None
None

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MOTION:
Hinton moved and Zollman seconded the motion to approve consent calendar items 5.
Mayor McLewis called for a roll call vote. City staff conducted a roll call vote.
VOTE:
Ayes:
Noes:
Absent:
Abstain:

Councilmembers Carter, Hinton, Zollman, Vice Mayor Maurer
Mayor McLewis
None
None

1. Approval of City Council Meeting Minutes for Special Meeting – Closed Session Meeting of Monday
September 14, 2026
Responsible Department: City Manager
Fiscal Impact: Staff time required to prepare the minutes is covered within existing budgeted salaries.
Additional Fiscal Impact: None
City Council Action: Approved City Council Meeting Minutes for Closed Session Meeting of September 14,
2026
Minute Order Number:
2026-254
2. Approval of City Council Meeting Minutes for Regular Meeting of September 15, 2026
Responsible Department: City Manager
Fiscal Impact: Staff time required to prepare the minutes is covered within existing budgeted salaries.
Additional Fiscal Impact: None
City Council Action: Approved City Council Meeting Minutes for Regular Meeting of September 15, 2026
Minute Order Number:
2026-255
3. Annual Planning Report for City of Sebastopol. Receipt of Information on how the City is doing in
implementing its General Plan and Housing Element, and in achieving its fair share of housing. Receive and
file the 2025 General Plan Implementation Report which summarizes the City’s progress in implementing
the General Plan, including the Housing Element, during the 2025 calendar year.
Responsible Department: Planning (City Staff Associate Planner)
Fiscal Impact: Staff time required to prepare the agenda item is covered within existing budgeted salaries.
Additional Fiscal Impact: None.
City Council Action: Approved Annual Planning Report for City of Sebastopol. Receipt of Information on how the
City is doing in implementing its General Plan and Housing Element, and in achieving its fair share of housing.
Receive and file the 2025 General Plan Implementation Report which summarizes the City’s progress in
implementing the General Plan, including the Housing Element, during the 2025 calendar year.
Minute Order Number:
2026-256
4. Approval of Reducing Age Limit for Youth Representative on the Climate Action Committee from Age 17-23 to
Age 15-23
Requestor: Climate Action Committee/Councilmember Carter
Responsible Department: Planning (City Staff Associate Planner)
Fiscal Impact: Staff time required to prepare the agenda items which is covered within existing budgeted salaries.
Additional Fiscal Impact: The cost to publish one (1) vacancy notice in the Press Democrat ranges from $295.00
to $343.00. This amount includes ½ hour of staff time for preparing the notice and posting it to all applicable
locations. The expense is currently budgeted in the adopted FY 2026–2027 budget.
City Council Action: Approved Resolution Reducing Age Limit for Youth Representative on the Climate Action
Committee from Age 17-23 to Age 15-23
Minute Order Number:
2026-257
Resolution Number:
6799-2026

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5. Approval of Resolution Authorizing staff to prepare and submit a grant application to the Caltrans
Sustainable Transportation Planning Grant Program to continue the planning work associated with the
Reimagining the Core Project.
Responsible Department : Public Works Director
Fiscal Impact: Staff time required to prepare the agenda items which is covered within existing budgeted salaries.
Additional Fiscal Impact: Contract with Fehr and Peers in the amount of $5,000 to help prepare the grant
application.
City Council Action: Approved Resolution Authorizing staff to prepare and submit a grant application to the
Caltrans Sustainable Transportation Planning Grant Program to continue the planning work associated with the
Reimagining the Core Project.
Minute Order Number:
2026-258
Resolution Number:
6800-2026
6. Approval of Amendment No. 1 to Task Order 5 with GHD for Construction Management Service for the
Bodega Phase 2 Bike Lane Phase 2 Project.
Responsible Department : Public Works Director
Fiscal Impact: Staff time required to prepare the agenda items which is covered within existing budgeted salaries.
Additional Fiscal Impact: None, this CIP budget amendment including GHD CCO of $38,750 was approved at the
May 19th Council meeting. This request is to have the City Manager authorize the Change Order.
City Council Action: Approved Amendment No. 1 to Task Order 5 with GHD for Construction Management
Service for the Bodega Phase 2 Bike Lane Phase 2 Project.
Minute Order Number:
2026-259
Resolution Number:
6801-2026
INFORMATIONAL ITEMS/PRESENTATIONS: Informational Items or Presentations are items that are informational only and
do not require action by the City Council. Presentations shall be scheduled as necessary for the promotion of an event
or service or general information items to the Council and should be limited to ten (10) minutes total in length of item
(total length includes questions of Council to presenter and public comment).
NONE
PUBLIC HEARING(s): NONE
REGULAR CALENDAR AGENDA ITEMS (DISCUSSION AND/OR ACTION):
7. Approval of Amendment to Resolution No. 6713-2025 Establishing a Standing Enterprise Fund Oversight
Committee – Addition of a Certified Public Accountant Member
Responsible Department: Public Works Director/Administrative Services Director
Fiscal Impact: Staff time required to prepare the agenda items which is covered within existing budgeted salaries.
Committee members serve in a volunteer, advisory capacity and are not compensated. Any incremental staff
time associated with supporting one additional committee member is expected to be minor and can be absorbed
within existing Engineering/Public Works and Administrative Services Department budgets.
Additional Fiscal Impact: The cost to publish one (1) vacancy notice in the Press Democrat ranges from $295.00
to $343.00. This amount includes ½ hour of staff time for preparing the notice and posting it to all applicable
locations. Applications if received would be scheduled for interview/appointment at a future City Council
Meeting.
Public Works Director Hart presented the Agenda item recommending the City Council adopt a resolution
temporarily increasing the maximum membership of the Enterprise Fund Oversight Committee from five (5) to
six (6) members, and add a new qualification category requiring that at least one member be a Certified Public
Accountant (CPA).
Mayor McLewis opened for questions of staff. The Council asked various questions of City staff.

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Mayor McLewis opened the public comment period. The following member(s) of the public spoke during the
public comment period:
Kyle
Mary

Support/Be precise; three recommendations; agenda item addresses third recommendation
CPA/Glenn Minnervini

City Council Discussion/Deliberations/Comments:
Council continued discussion of the item.
Mayor McLewis called for a motion.
MOTION:
Councilmember Zollman moved and Mayor McLewis seconded the motion to approve Amendment to Resolution
No. 6713-2025 Establishing a Standing Enterprise Fund Oversight Committee – Addition of a Certified Public
Accountant Member
Mayor McLewis called for a roll call vote. City staff conducted a roll call vote.
VOTE:
Ayes:
Councilmembers Carter, Hinton, Zollman, Vice Mayor Maurer and Mayor McLewis
Noes:
None
Absent:
None
Abstain:
None
City Council Action: Approved Amendment to Resolution No. 6713-2025 Establishing a Standing Enterprise Fund
Oversight Committee – Addition of a Certified Public Accountant Member
Minute Order Number:
2026-260
Resolution Number:
6802-2026
8. Request of Receipt of Informational Report from Chief of Police on exigent use of surveillance cameras.
This report is provided pursuant to SMC 8.80.040, to advise the Sebastopol City Council about the
temporary exigent use of surveillance technology, which occurred on Thursday, July 30, 2026. Ordinance
SMC 8.80.040 requires a report to the City Council within 60 days of any exigent use of certain surveillance
technologies, including Automated License Plate Readers (ALPRs). Item Continued from September 15,
2026 City Council Meeting.
Responsible Department: Police Chief
Fiscal Impact: Staff time required to prepare the agenda report is covered within existing budgeted salaries.
Additional Fiscal Impact: None
Police Chief McDonagh presented the Agenda item recommending the City Council receive and file this report
regarding the Sebastopol Police Department's exigent use of surveillance technology (Automated License Plate
Reader data) on July 30, 2026, submitted pursuant to Sebastopol Municipal Code (SMC) Section 8.80.040.
Mayor McLewis opened for questions of staff. The Council asked various questions of City staff.
Mayor McLewis opened the public comment period. The following member(s) of the public spoke during the
public comment period:
Magick
Kyle

Cameras in general not something want
Reason in report why this exists; understand why police acted; report raises concern of flock data at
all for mutual aid
Shaun Paul In this situation how hard t get information from dispatch and get officers moving; Sebastopol did
great job

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Lee
Doug
June
Cynthia
Mary
Rob

Cannot believe Councilmember ignore a woman in immortal danger; flock camera used for this
purpose should be encouraged
Discussed residual inforati9n existing is relevant
Where date is afterwards; in this case not what led to contact with person; starter with request to
sheriff office was use of camera; how many times Chief contacts Sheriff
Flock cameras is a private corporation and can share and give information to anyone
What tell girls in juvenile hall; somewhere else in County if need help but not in Sebastopol
Conflating different issues

Council Discussion/Deliberations/Comments:
Council continued discussion of the item.
Mayor McLewis called for a motion.
MOTION:
Mayor McLewis moved and Vice Mayor Maurer seconded the motion to receive and file this report regarding the
Police Department's exigent use of surveillance technology (Automated License Plate Reader data) on July 30,
2026, submitted pursuant to SMC Section 8.80.040.
Mayor McLewis called for a roll call vote. City staff conducted a roll call vote.
VOTE:
Ayes:
Councilmembers Carter, Hinton, Zollman, Vice Mayor Maurer and Mayor McLewis
Noes:
None
Absent:
None
Abstain:
None
City Council Action: Approved receive and file this report regarding the Police Department's exigent use of
surveillance technology (Automated License Plate Reader data) on July 30, 2026, submitted pursuant to SMC
Section 8.80.040.
Minute Order Number:
2026-261
9. Request of Receipt of Budget at a Glance Format and Authorize Staff to Post Such Document on the City
Website. Item Continued from September 15, 2026 City Council Meeting.
Responsible Department: Administrative Services Director
Fiscal Impact: Staff time required to prepare the agenda report is covered within existing budgeted salaries.
Additional Fiscal Impact: None
Administrative Services Director Kwong presented the Agenda item recommending the City Council receive the
FY 2026-27 Budget at a Glance and authorize staff to publish the document on the City’s official website. The
summary is intended to make the adopted budget easier for residents, businesses, and other interested parties
to understand.
Mayor McLewis opened for questions of staff. The Council asked various questions of City staff.
Mayor McLewis opened the public comment period. The following member(s) of the public spoke during the
public comment period:
Kyle
Lee
City Council Discussion/Deliberations/Comments:
Council continued discussion of the item.

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Mayor McLewis called for a motion.
MOTION:
Mayor McLewis moved and Councilmember Zollman seconded the motion to approve Receipt of Budget at a
Glance Format and Authorize Staff to Post Such Document on the City Website.
Mayor McLewis called for a roll call vote. City staff conducted a roll call vote.
VOTE:
Ayes:
Councilmembers Carter, Hinton, Zollman, Vice Mayor Maurer and Mayor McLewis
Noes:
None
Absent:
None
Abstain:
None
City Council Action: Approved Receipt of Budget at a Glance Format and Authorize Staff to Post Such Document
on the City Website.
Minute Order Number:
2026-262
10. Commission and Committee Work Plans. Review and Consideration of the 26/27 Work Plans for the
Planning Commission, Design Review Board/Tree Board, Climate Action Committee, and Public Arts
Committee (This item was scheduled for the July 21st City Council Meeting; but was not heard due to
adjournment of the meeting per Council protocols). Note: In conjunction with the proposed Work Plans,
the Public Arts Committee has requested a return to a monthly meeting schedule. The Committee currently
meets for two hours on the fourth Thursday of every other month and has determined that monthly
meetings would improve their ability to advance projects and accomplish Work Plan objectives in a timely
manner. The Design Review/Tree Board has requested a return to meeting twice per month. The Board
currently meets once a month for two hours on the fourth Tuesday. Under the proposed schedule, the
Board would continue its regular monthly meeting for project and permit review and hold a second monthly
meeting for 90 minutes dedicated solely to Work Plan implementation and long-range planning efforts.
Item Continued from September 15, 2026 City Council Meeting.
Responsible Department: Planning (City Staff Associate Planner)
Fiscal Impact: Staff time required to prepare the agenda report is covered within existing budgeted salaries.
Additional Fiscal Impact: If approved by Council, the estimated fiscal impact of adding an additional PAC
meeting would be $5,376 to $8,064 in staff hours, and the estimated total annual fiscal impact of adding an
additional DRB meeting would be $7,152 to $11,448 in staff hours.
Eli Arreola presented the Agenda item recommending the City Council receive the presentation, review the Work
Plans, provide any input, and approve the Work Plans.
Mayor McLewis opened for questions of staff. The Council asked various questions of City staff.
Mayor McLewis opened the public comment period. The following member(s) of the public spoke during the
public comment period:
Kirstin
Melissa
Rob
June
Lee
City Council Discussion/Deliberations/Comments:
Council continued discussion of the item.

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Mayor McLewis called for a motion.
MOTION:
Vice Mayor Maurer moved and Councilmember Carter seconded the motion to approve the 26/27 Work Plans for:
Planning Commission & Design Review Board/Tree Board, with updated websites for both included in approved
work plan; Climate Action Committee; and Public Arts Committee, with Charles Schultz 95472 mural included in
approved work plan; and to bring back in January a review for additional meetings for the mid-year budget review.
Mayor McLewis called for a roll call vote. City staff conducted a roll call vote.
VOTE:
Ayes:
Councilmembers Carter, Hinton, Zollman, Vice Mayor Maurer and Mayor McLewis
Noes:
None
Absent:
None
Abstain:
None
City Council Action: Approved the 26/27 Work plans as amended, adding the website updates for PC and DRB to
be done now, adding the 95472 Charles Schultz Mural into approved work plan, and bringing back in January a
review for additional meetings for mid-year budget review.
Reference Order Number: 2026-263
11. Discussion and Considerations of Options for Rezone/Text Amendment for Outdoor Commercial Barbeques
Responsible Department: City Attorney
Fiscal Impact: Staff time required to prepare the agenda item is covered within existing budgeted salaries.
Additional Fiscal Impact: Anticipated fiscal impact is approximately $5,250 in staff and consultant hours to
prepare the zoning text amendment and accompanying Mitigated Negative Declaration.
City Attorney Alex Mog presented the Agenda item recommending the City Council providing direction to staff.
Mayor McLewis opened for questions of staff. The Council asked various questions of City staff.
Mayor McLewis opened the public comment period. The following member(s) of the public spoke during the
public comment period:
Doug
Kyle
Kim
Sarah
Kit
Rob
Kirstin
Oliver
Linda
Ruby
Ben

Too long; El Coronel not work
Staff accountability
Harm from smoke
A&M being pushed out of town
Breathing smoke for year; go fund me for filters
Conversations indicative of Sebastopol mentality; NIMBY
Can meet business needs and residents
Move to area zoned for BBQs
Missing elephant in room; real issue is smoke kills people
Work at A&M; negative comments interesting
Health impacts; nuisance impacts; timeline; City made aware of a year ago; violations; enforcement
stopped; no justification; health issues
June
Law on books not to have there
Finn
Path forward; grey area; Use permit; protect city and neighborhood
Woody Public health issue
Katie Support of A&M BBQ

City Council Discussion/Deliberations/Comments:
Council continued discussion of the item.

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Mayor McLewis called for a motion.
MOTION:
Councilmember Zollman moved and Councilmember carter seconded the motion to direct staff to not take any
rezoning action particular to the subject site or zone. The option would result in the reinitiation of enforcement
action.
Mayor McLewis called for a roll call vote. City staff conducted a roll call vote.
VOTE:
Ayes:
Councilmembers Carter, Hinton, Zollman, Vice Mayor Maurer and Mayor McLewis
Noes:
None
Absent:
None
Abstain:
None
City Council Action: Directed staff to not take any rezoning action particular to the subject site or zone. The
option would result in the reinitiation of enforcement action.
Minute Order Number:
2026-264
12. Consideration of Authorization for approval of City Attorney Hours to Review and Provide information
on City Lexipol Policies; CIRA Law Enforcement Trainings; Law Enforcement Practices Regarding
Collaboration with ICE; Youth diversion/restorative justice information; and review of
recommendations from Gault Center.
Requestor: Councilmember Zollman
Responsible Department: City Attorney
Fiscal Impact: Staff time required to prepare the agenda report is covered within existing budgeted salaries.
Additional Fiscal Impact: City Attorney time estimated at 10 hours
City Council Action: Item continued to the October 20th City Council Meeting at or after 6:00 pm at the
Sebastopol Youth Annex, 425, Morris Street.
Minute Order Number:
2026-265
13. Creation of Ad Hoc Committee or Council Liaison Regarding Racism, Social Bullying, and Mockery and
Direction Regarding Training and Other Options.
That the City Council consider the following options and provide direction:
Option 1 – Create a City Council Ad Hoc Committee
a.
Establish a City Council Ad Hoc Committee to Address Racism, Social Bullying, and Mockery in
Sebastopol, and appoint two (2) Councilmembers to the Committee;
b.
Direct the Committee to convene regular meetings with neighbors (including Pitt Avenue residents
across from Safeway), school partners (the School Board / Analy High School administration and other
local schools as the Committee identifies, including Brook Haven), Safeway management, and other
community members and businesses as needed;
c.
Direct the Committee to review suggestions from the public received on September 1, 2026, and to
provide recommendations to the City Council no later than six (6) months from the initial meeting; and
d.
Authorize the City Manager to assign a staff liaison and provide administrative support within existing
resources.
Option 2 – Council Liaison Leads Community Meetings; Staff Prepares Graffiti Ordinance
Direct the existing Council liaison to lead community meetings with neighbors, school partners, Safeway
management, and other community members as needed, requesting staff support on an as-needed
basis and reporting back to the City Council
Under either option:
a.
Staff to include in City protocols CIRA Vector Solutions racial-bias and related courses available to the
City as a CIRA member; work with ERMA to receive one complimentary ERMA training; and submit
paperwork for the ERMA $2,500 training grant; and

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b.

Staff to utilize funds dedication by Vice Mayor Sandra Maurer and Councilmember Stephen Zollman of
their remaining Fiscal Year 2026-27 City Council Conference and Training funds, for training and related
costs that CIRA and ERMA do not cover.
c. Direct staff to prepare a draft graffiti ordinance for future Council consideration.
Responsible Department: City Attorney/City Manager
Fiscal Impact: Staff time required to prepare the agenda item is covered within existing budgeted salaries.
Additional Fiscal Impact: It is anticipated that at the minimum one meeting per month (if limited to one hour each)
would be 6-12 hours depending on attendance of one or two staff members. This estimate is for meeting attendance
only. It is feasible that there may be a need for additional staff time for research and preparation or dependent upon
the outcome of the meetings
It is estimated 2-4 hours would be required for City Attorney to draft graffiti ordinance.
City Attorney Alex Mog presented the Agenda item recommending the City Council consider creation of an Ad
Hoc Committee or Council Liaison and provide direction on options related to staff & Council training.
Mayor McLewis opened for questions of staff. The Council asked various questions of City staff.
Mayor McLewis opened the public comment period. The following member(s) of the public spoke during the
public comment period:
Member of the Public
June
Gayle
Sarah
Kirstin
Dena
Todd
Oliver
Member of public
Shaun Paul
Member of public
Lee
Member of public
Katie
Wendy

Six Community Members; deep problem; deep seated racism
Ad Hoc good; not support graffiti ordinance
Concerning youth following path of racism; get to core of issue; graffiti is
oppressive; frightening; offer assistance
Resident; addressed Safeway letter (false); police upped monitoring; littering; how
soon hear back
NAACP; not first time issues come up with youth in this community; ten years;
discussed Bellflower; not stand up to address racial; opportunity to leverage
Safeway
Urge to create standing committee or advisory body
Graffiti away from core issue of racism; not trust Safeway; come together as
community
Too small to be taking this on; no meaningful impact; push to County
Small community; deal with issues; small community say not accept racism
Do training; Ad hoc not right choice; community based issue
Community showing up; seeing racism; want it to stop; work with community
Important issue; difficult issue; challenge small city know what can control and
what not; City not solve the issue
Training; separate ordinance of graffiti; talking of hate graffiti and crimes
Personal perspective
Go with option 2

Council voted unanimously to continue the meeting beyond 10:30 pm.
City Council Discussion/Deliberations/Comments:
Council continued discussion of the item.
Mayor McLewis called for a motion.
MOTION:
Councilmember Hinton moved and Vice Mayor Maurer seconded the motion to approve a Council liaison; and
appointed Councilmember Carter as the Council liaison and :

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•

•

•

Direct the existing Council liaison to lead community meetings with neighbors, school partners, Safeway
management, and other community members as needed, requesting staff support on an as-needed
basis and reporting back to the City Council with quarterly reporting
Staff to include in City protocols CIRA Vector Solutions racial-bias and related courses available to the
City as a CIRA member; work with ERMA to receive one complimentary ERMA training; and submit
paperwork for the ERMA $2,500 training grant; and
Direct staff to prepare a draft graffiti ordinance for future Council consideration; include hate graffiti.

Mayor McLewis called for a roll call vote. City staff conducted a roll call vote.
VOTE:
Ayes:
Councilmembers Carter, Hinton, Zollman, Vice Mayor Maurer and Mayor McLewis
Noes:
None
Absent:
None
Abstain:
None
City Council Action: Approved a Council liaison; and appointed Councilmember Carter as the Council liaison
and :
• Direct the existing Council liaison to lead community meetings with neighbors, school partners, Safeway
management, and other community members as needed, requesting staff support on an as-needed
basis and reporting back to the City Council with quarterly reporting
• Staff to include in City protocols CIRA Vector Solutions racial-bias and related courses available to the
City as a CIRA member; work with ERMA to receive one complimentary ERMA training; and submit
paperwork for the ERMA $2,500 training grant; and
• Direct staff to prepare a draft graffiti ordinance for future Council consideration; include hate graffiti.
Minute Order Number:
2026-266

ADDITIONAL PUBLIC COMMENT FOR ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA: Two minutes per speaker for up to twenty
(20) minutes total for public comments but can be reduced at Mayor’s discretion depending upon the number of
speakers or Mayor has discretion to allow for additional time beyond the 20 minutes allocated for public comment
dependent upon the subject matter or number of speakers.
None
COUNCILMEMBER(S) REQUESTS FOR FUTURE CITY COUNCIL AGENDA ITEMS:
Councilmember Hinton requested agenda item to cancel Nov 3rd City Council Meeting as it is election day on Oct 20th
Meeting
Councilmember Carter supported the request.
CITY COUNCIL/CITY STAFF REPORTS/COMMUNICATIONS/ANNOUNCEMENTS/FUTURE MEETINGS:
13. City Manager and/or City Clerk Reports: (This will be either verbal reports at the meeting, or
written reports provided at or prior to the meeting)
14. City Council Reports/Committee/Sub-Committee Meeting Reports: (Reports by Mayor/City Councilmembers
Regarding Various Agency Meetings/Committee Meetings/Sub-Committee Meeting /Conferences Attended
and Possible Direction to its Representatives (If Needed) on Pending issues before such Boards. (This will be
either verbal reports at the meeting, or written reports provided at or prior to the meeting). Councilmembers
provided reports.
15. Council Communications Received (Information/Meetings/Correspondence Received from the General
Public to Councilmembers)
CLOSED SESSION: NONE

Page 11 of 12

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Agenda Item Number 1

ADJOURNMENT OF CITY COUNCIL MEETING
The October 6, 2026 City Council Regular Meeting was adjourned by Mayor McLewis at 10:54pm. The next Regular
City Council Meeting is Tuesday, October 20, 2026 at 6:00 pm, Sebastopol Youth Annex, 425 Morris Street,
Sebastopol, CA.
Respectfully submitted:

Mary C. Gourley
City Manager
Attachment 1: ZOOM Raw Minutes
Attachment 2: VITAC Real Time Transcription Minutes

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WEBVTT
00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:09.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Good. Thank you.
00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:41.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Ah, okay.
00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:14.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah.
00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:21.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah. Yeah, maybe just think about
it.
00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:24.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That'd be fun.
00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:41.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Test.
00:48:41.000 --> 00:48:46.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It seems like it's working. I'm not
going to sing though.
00:48:47.000 --> 00:48:48.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you.
00:48:48.000 --> 00:48:49.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay.
00:49:03.000 --> 00:49:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I saw, okay, yeah, so .
00:49:21.000 --> 00:49:27.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I don't see my name right again.
00:49:27.000 --> 00:49:33.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Oh, okay. Oh, nothing.
00:49:33.000 --> 00:49:42.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Now I'm happy. Can you do it?
Hello. Yeah, we're happy now. Hello.
00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:43.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: No.
00:49:43.000 --> 00:49:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay.
00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:46.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Bye. Bye.
00:49:58.000 --> 00:50:00.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for checking out.
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:02.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Well, let's see, because I haven't
seen it.
00:50:02.000 --> 00:50:05.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We could do that, I think. Invest.
00:50:09.000 --> 00:50:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm trying not to do that.
00:50:11.000 --> 00:50:13.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It's hard not to be distressed.
00:54:39.000 --> 00:54:40.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: No, I'm ready.
00:55:07.000 --> 00:55:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Are you ready? Everyone ready?
Okay.
00:55:11.000 --> 00:55:19.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: All right. Welcome everyone to
Council Meeting tonight. We're going to go ahead and do a call to order
and a roll call.
00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:23.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Mayor. Uh, Councilmember
Carter?
00:55:23.000 --> 00:55:35.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Here. Councilmember Hinton? Here.
Councilmember Zollman? Present. Vice Mayor Maurer? Here. Mayor McLewis?
Here. Please note, all Councilmembers are in attendance. All right, if
everyone could join me in doing a salute to the fl.
00:55:54.000 --> 00:56:10.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: All right, thank you. So let's see,
we do a land acknowledgement at the beginning of every meeting, so I'm
gonna go ahead and read that right now. The City of Sebastopol
acknowledges that we live and work within the unceded ancestral homelands
of the Southern Pomo and Coast Miwok people.
00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We pay our respect to the past,
present, and future generations of these peoples, including the Federated
Indians of Grayton Rancheria.
00:56:18.000 --> 00:56:35.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And typically, we have a
Remembering the History, but I wasn't able to obtain that this week from
— so we're going to move on from there, move straight to the

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proclamations. The first proclamation that we have is recognition of five
years of service award for Peter Stinski.
00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And I've spoken with our Director
of Public Works, and Oriana is going to come up for a moment and accept
this and give us a few words.
00:56:49.000 --> 00:57:06.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Good evening, Mayor and Council
members. Thank you for letting me spend a moment to talk about Pete. Uh,
he's an excellent member of our team. He came to the city in 2021 as a
laborer, now our maintenance assistant, and promoted within a year to be
a maintenance worker. His primary duties is, uh.
00:57:06.000 --> 00:57:29.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: working on our infrastructure. But
he's the one who troubleshoots your water meters, and he's the one who
takes the service calls when people have water issues is one of the
things he does a lot of the time with. He's a willing learner and eager
to help all the time. One of the things I really love about him is kind
of his investment in our park system like he's the one who had the
prompted us to repair the split rail.
00:57:29.000 --> 00:57:47.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: uh, fence over here by the entrance
to the Laguna, and he's hoping to do the same thing over here in the
spring. So, he's an excellent member of our team, and I'm really happy
he's on my staff. So, for Public Works and the City of Spastable, we
congratulate Steven, or P. Steve, what is his name? P. And thank you for
his five years of service.
00:57:47.000 --> 00:57:51.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: for the city of Spoustable. Thank
you so much, and I'll hand this to you.
00:57:56.000 --> 00:58:05.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: All right, we have additional
proclamations. Um, the next one is proclaiming October 2026 as Domestic
Violence Awareness Month, and…
00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:10.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Recognizing the YWCA, and I believe
Councilmember Carter, you're going to read that.
00:58:10.000 --> 00:58:12.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yes.
00:58:12.000 --> 00:58:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Whereas the city of Sebastopol
hereby recognizes that domestic violence affects one in four families.
00:58:18.000 --> 00:58:27.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And that nearly all of us know
someone who has been a victim of abuse. The crime of domestic violence
violates an individual's privacy, dignity, and security.
00:58:28.000 --> 00:58:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Whereas since 1976, YWCA Sonoma
County has been the singular and vital resource for local residents
experiencing violence and the place where we should all feel the safest,
inside our own homes, we recognize and pay tribute to YWCA's founder,
staff.
00:58:45.000 --> 00:58:50.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Board of Directors, and Volunteers
for their 50th anniversary this year.
00:58:50.000 --> 00:59:01.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: YWCA operates Sonoma County's only
confidential safe house shelter and Sonoma County's only 24-7 domestic
violence crisis hotline.
00:59:01.000 --> 00:59:06.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: YWCA's Counseling Support Services
offers trauma…
00:59:07.000 --> 00:59:14.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Trauma informed individual and
support group therapy for victims of trauma and domestic violence.
00:59:14.000 --> 00:59:23.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Whereas only an informed community
can end the cycle of violence, we are encouraged to learn about YWCA's
programs.
00:59:23.000 --> 00:59:28.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and support their vision for every
family in Sonoma County to live a healthy, productive life.
00:59:28.000 --> 00:59:41.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Now, therefore, be it resolved that
I, Jill McLewis, Mayor of the City of Sebastopol, on behalf of the entire
City Council, do hereby proclaim on October 26th in Sebastopol as
Domestic Violence Awareness Month.
00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:47.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: All right, thank you. And I believe
we have someone here to receive that.
00:59:48.000 --> 00:59:50.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Oh.
00:59:51.000 --> 01:00:07.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, go ahead. Did you have — go
ahead. I'm sorry. I received a script, but they told me that there
weren't any commentary. Typically, what we do is during the public

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comment, you can come up and read all of that if you would like. But we'd
like to at least hand the certificate to you and shake your hands and
everything.
01:00:12.000 --> 01:00:13.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And…
01:00:13.000 --> 01:00:15.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I just wanted to thank you.
01:00:15.000 --> 01:00:16.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay.
01:00:16.000 --> 01:00:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you. Yeah. Okay.
01:00:19.000 --> 01:00:22.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That's for me as well. Right? This
one's okay.
01:00:25.000 --> 01:00:33.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: All right, we have our next
proclamation, which is, um, proclaiming Zero Waste Week. And, um, our
Vice Mayor's gonna read that.
01:00:33.000 --> 01:00:49.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: North Bay Zero Waste Week, October
10th through the 17th, 2026, whereas the city of Sebastopol has assumed a
leadership role by setting zero waste as a goal and adopting a zero waste
resolution and sets a goal of zero waste.
01:00:49.000 --> 01:01:06.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: By 2030. Whereas each year, Zero
Waste Sonoma and community partners host a one-day zero waste symposium.
As a local opportunity for industry and the public to gain insight on
zero waste topics trends, share ideas, and network.
01:01:06.000 --> 01:01:19.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And whereas, since 2022, Zero Waste
Sonoma has coordinated and promoted a week of events aimed at educating
and empowering various sectors of the public to act toward zero waste.
01:01:19.000 --> 01:01:35.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And whereas since 2022, Zero Waste
Sonoma has collaborated with North Bay groups in Sonoma, Napa, and Marin
counties, and volunteers to expand these event offerings, which have
included clothing, produce swaps, recycling.
01:01:35.000 --> 01:01:51.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: compost and water treatment
facility tours, repair and reuse fairs, litter cleanups, food waste,
reduction classes, environmental film screenings, and more. And whereas
the city of Sebastopol, along with public.

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01:01:51.000 --> 01:02:01.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: private, and non-profit
organizations and community groups will be hosting zero-waste events
through the week of October 10th through 17th.
01:02:01.000 --> 01:02:10.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Now, therefore, it be resolved that
our Mayor, on behalf of the entire City Council, hereby proclaims October
10th through 17th Zero Waste Week.
01:02:11.000 --> 01:02:13.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: All right, thank you. And is…
01:02:13.000 --> 01:02:15.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Or, or yeah.
01:02:15.000 --> 01:02:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Oriana, are you the one accepting
that, or?
01:02:20.000 --> 01:02:25.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Sorry. We can get up a few times.
01:02:26.000 --> 01:02:27.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you.
01:02:27.000 --> 01:02:35.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: All right, and now we have another
proclamation that I'm going to read, and it is recognizing October Breast
Cancer Awareness Month.
01:02:36.000 --> 01:02:42.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, and I'm gonna start reading
this, and hopefully I won't cry. Um…
01:02:42.000 --> 01:02:58.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm already gonna cry. I'm just
gonna share with y'all. Exactly a year ago today, I sat here with a bald
head because I had breast cancer, and so it's very personal for me. I
just… yeah, it's been 14 months of treatment, so anyway, this means a
lot to me, so…
01:02:58.000 --> 01:03:16.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, recognizing October 2026 as
Breast Cancer Awareness Month, whereas breast cancer is the most commonly
diagnosed cancer among women in the United States, apart from skin
cancers, and is the second leading cause of cancer death among women, and
whereas in 2026, an estimated 321,910 women.
01:03:16.000 --> 01:03:34.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: in the United States will be
diagnosed with invasive breast cancer, and an estimated 42,140 women will
die from the disease, and whereas breast cancer also affects men with an

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estimated 2,670 new diagnosis and 530 deaths among men expected this
year.
01:03:34.000 --> 01:03:55.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And whereas the disease touches
nearly every family in some way, including our own residents, neighbors,
coworkers, and friends here in Sebastopol and throughout Sonoma County,
and every story is unique and every journey matters, and each person
diagnosed with breast cancer, along with their family and loved ones,
deserves compassionate, personalized care and support at every step.
01:03:56.000 --> 01:04:01.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Whereas about two-thirds of breast
cancers are found at a localized stage when the treatment works best.
01:04:01.000 --> 01:04:24.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: which shows how much regular
screening and early detection saves lives and significant disparities
persist with black women experiencing the highest breast cancer death
rate of any group, underscoring the need for equitable access to
screening, diagnosis and care and local healthcare providers, survivors
and caregivers, advocates and community organizations work every day to
educate, support patients.
01:04:24.000 --> 01:04:27.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and families in advanced research
toward a cure.
01:04:27.000 --> 01:04:45.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Now, therefore, it be it resolved
that I, Jill Mcglosh, Mayor of the City of Sebastopol, on behalf of the
entire City Council, do hereby proclaim October 2026 as Breast Cancer
Awareness Month in the City of Sebastopol, and encourage all residents to
learn the risk factors and warning signs, talk with their healthcare
providers about screening.
01:04:45.000 --> 01:04:51.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And support those living with
breast cancer, the survivors among us, and the families who have lost
loved ones.
01:04:51.000 --> 01:05:10.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And I just want to say, just from
my own personal experience and going through this and within the
community, um, there are many people in this community that I have
learned who have gone through this that most of you would be shocked. I
was surprised. People that I've known for over a decade, and they've come
to me and shared with me their private stories, and I've been very public
about mine.
01:05:10.000 --> 01:05:27.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and I've had so many people come to
me and tell me that they've gotten screenings over the year, you know,
because of because of the story that I continue to tell. So I just want

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to encourage everyone, men and women, to get your screenings, and
especially women. Get your but your mammograms, and don't be late because
it saved my life.
01:05:27.000 --> 01:05:40.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: it literally saved my life. I
was… yeah, I was 3 months early for it, otherwise I would not… may…
may not have, you know, be here in a couple years, they said, so… At
any rate, thank you all for indulging me. This is really personal for me.
01:05:40.000 --> 01:05:41.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um.
01:05:41.000 --> 01:05:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So we're going to go ahead and move
on.
01:05:44.000 --> 01:05:55.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I see my husband back there in
tears. The family, it's always important for us to recognize our families
in all of this, so… because it's a… it's a… it's a long road when
you have breast cancer, so…
01:05:55.000 --> 01:05:58.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And our police chief.
01:05:58.000 --> 01:06:00.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: All right.
01:06:00.000 --> 01:06:04.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I am going to move on to any
statements of conflicts of interest.
01:06:05.000 --> 01:06:06.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Anyone?
01:06:08.000 --> 01:06:13.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Just statements of conflicts of
interest just in general as a whole.
01:06:14.000 --> 01:06:22.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I have met with the neighbors near
A&M. I think other people have too, but if that's a conflict, not a
conflict.
01:06:22.000 --> 01:06:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I don't think so. I've met as well,
so I think a lot of us have.
01:06:26.000 --> 01:06:28.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Any other conflicts?
01:06:28.000 --> 01:06:45.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: OK. All right, then we're going to
go ahead and go to public comment. Mary, if you would like to take over.
Thank you, Mayor. So this is the opportunity for public comment for items
that are not on tonight's agenda. It is a 20-minute time limit. It is a
two-minute time limit per person per speaker.
01:06:45.000 --> 01:06:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We do chambers first, and then go
out to Zoom. So again, this is for public comment for items not on
tonight's agenda. Is there anyone in chambers that would like to make a
public comment for an item not on tonight's agenda?
01:06:57.000 --> 01:06:58.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, go ahead.
01:07:09.000 --> 01:07:12.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Read the words now. Remember to
speak into the microphone.
01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:31.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I kindly request the council and
city explore revoking the adoption of AB 1033 because it was intended
abuse by developers. AB 1033 could make sense if the dwellings were
constructed following normal building and zoning rules. For example, a
standard lot size minimum is 5,000 square feet.
01:07:31.000 --> 01:07:48.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Adding an ADU for sale on this size
of a lot could make sense. Unfortunately, we've recently seen developers
getting zoning waivers allowing minimum lot sizes of half the standard
size, 2,501 square feet, then adding large ADUs to the lot, essentially
adding homes now.
01:07:48.000 --> 01:07:56.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Two lots are one-fourth the
original minimum lot size. This creates unsafe and unfavorable additions
to our local community. Thank you.
01:07:56.000 --> 01:08:04.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.
I will go out to Zoom. If there's anyone on Zoom that would like to make
a public comment for an item not, Lee, can you unmute yourself, please?
01:08:03.000 --> 01:08:06.000
Lee: I can. Can you hear me?
01:08:04.000 --> 01:08:08.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I can hear you. Can you see the
timer?
01:08:07.000 --> 01:08:09.000
Lee: I can, thank you.
01:08:08.000 --> 01:08:10.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Great. Go ahead, please.
01:08:09.000 --> 01:08:31.000
Lee: Yeah, later tonight. I'm not going to talk about it specifically.
But but the Council is going to be asked to give direction to the city
attorney to explore some legal issues around something youth and policies
in the police department. I'm not going to talk about that. But but I I
got other ideas for things that if the Council wants to instruct the city
attorney to spend time and money on.
01:08:31.000 --> 01:08:42.000
Lee: might be more productive for the people of Sevastopol, anyway.
Number one is the illegal cost allocation scheme continues.
01:08:42.000 --> 01:08:57.000
Lee: the ratepayers are paying for almost half of tonight's meeting, and
yet I don't think there's anything on the agenda, um, and certainly not
half the agenda. Uh, city council members and city staff… city staffs,
uh, the, um…
01:08:57.000 --> 01:09:12.000
Lee: City clerk and the city manager have similar allocations, and city
staff and city council members have admitted publicly that they don't
spend that much time on water and sewer, but yet it continues on. Is that
a legal liability? Maybe the city attorney should weigh in on that.
01:09:12.000 --> 01:09:25.000
Lee: I think we're moving forward now on the refund for the city attorney
fees, $350,000 that was billed to the ratepayers, but never for anything
related to water and sewer. Um…
01:09:25.000 --> 01:09:40.000
Lee: But the general manager position, I think it was $280,000 at rate
payers paid last year for the city manager position, and it was vacant
the entire year. And I think that was supposed to come back to city
council, but still hasn't. Is that a liability for the city if somebody
wants to sue?
01:09:40.000 --> 01:10:00.000
Lee: What about the — oh, this was a good one. The grand jury report
said that the city misallocated $5.5 million. Yesterday, the EFOC was
told that the city doesn't have money to do infrastructure projects, the
same infrastructure projects in the grand jury report, and that the
ratepayers have to borrow $5 million.
01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:08.000
Lee: Hmm, that seems like a straight line for a jury to look at and say,
there's some legal liability here. Um, I'm out of time, I've got others,
but…
01:10:08.000 --> 01:10:12.000
Lee: Maybe there's better things we can do in terms of analyzing our
problems. Thank you.

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01:10:12.000 --> 01:10:21.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Lee, for your public
comment. Next, I will come back to the chambers. If there's anyone in
chambers that would like to make a public comment for an item not on
tonight's agenda?
01:10:22.000 --> 01:10:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I'll go out. I'm
sorry, go ahead.
01:10:30.000 --> 01:10:37.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your patience. This
is my first time here, so I'm getting used to the procedure.
01:10:37.000 --> 01:10:52.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, when I was originally assigned
to come here today, I was advised I wouldn't be speaking, but I feel like
it's really important to make this statement today. Um, we are doing
these proclamations throughout Sonoma County, and so, um, they're all
getting to.
01:10:52.000 --> 01:10:58.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: speak, and I want to make sure that
everybody understands how important Domestic Violence Awareness Month is.
01:10:58.000 --> 01:11:12.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, Honorable Mayor and members of
the City Council, my name is Carrie Brown. I am currently the Secretary
of the YWCA, Sonoma County. I'm also an attorney here in town, and I
represent employers.
01:11:12.000 --> 01:11:29.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, and have two kids that are
going to school at Hillcrest, so I'm a, you know, a community member
here. On behalf of the Board of Directors, staff, volunteers, and
especially the families served by YWCA Sonoma County, thank you for
honoring October as Domestic Violence Awareness Month, and noting.
01:11:29.000 --> 01:11:34.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The 50th anniversary of dedicated
service to our community with your proclamation.
01:11:34.000 --> 01:11:49.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: As shared in the reading of the
proclamation, established in 1976, YWCA's 24-7 DV crisis hotline, the
only one in Sonoma County, is still the most direct path to support for
local families in need.
01:11:49.000 --> 01:11:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Our confidential safe house shelter
is also the only one in Sonoma County for families seeking refuge from
harm.
01:11:57.000 --> 01:12:11.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Safety planning and strategies to
ensure relief are at the forefront of every one of the 3,000 calls we
received last year. Our client population is 80% female, over 50%
identify Hispanic Latinx.
01:12:11.000 --> 01:12:24.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: 13% are children, and 7% are
seniors. Carrie, about 20 seconds. The majority are from poverty-level
families. Nationally and locally, domestic violence-related homicide and
suicide rates are on the rise.
01:12:24.000 --> 01:12:31.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: For YWCA Sonoma County, we remain
steadfast and committed to our vital and singular role in Sonoma County.
01:12:31.000 --> 01:12:38.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: In closing, please know that YWCA
has been supporting local families for 50 years, and we will continue to
be here.
01:12:38.000 --> 01:12:45.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you. Going forward. Thank you
very much. Thank you for your public comment. Next, I'll go back out to
Zoom. Kyle, can you unmute yourself, please?
01:12:45.000 --> 01:12:47.000
Kyle Falbo: I can.
01:12:46.000 --> 01:12:49.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you. Can you see the timer?
01:12:48.000 --> 01:13:03.000
Kyle Falbo: Um, I can. Um, so I want to ping… I want to ping you back a
little bit on, uh, Lee's comment, um, in that, uh, what's really
interesting about the approach that the City Council has seemed to take
regarding the water and wastewater and the response to the grand jury.
01:12:49.000 --> 01:12:51.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Great. Go ahead.
01:13:03.000 --> 01:13:08.000
Kyle Falbo: Um, happens to be related to, um…
01:13:08.000 --> 01:13:24.000
Kyle Falbo: This accepting of this new information and then making
decisions to try to right the past, but what's interesting about it is
that none of these actual city council members themselves have been
responsible for bringing.
01:13:24.000 --> 01:13:37.000
Kyle Falbo: forward the corrections that have been recommended by the
EFOC. And in fact, even though they have made the voting decisions to
make some of the recommendations of the EFOC.

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01:13:37.000 --> 01:13:53.000
Kyle Falbo: what they've also done is debated and tested the waters on
whether or not there was, um, kind of appetite to not pursue some of the,
uh, decisions by the EFOC. So, it's not surprising to me.
01:13:53.000 --> 01:14:14.000
Kyle Falbo: to learn that when we come close to this $5 million mark of
need for infrastructure projects, that there is now a suggestion that the
city is going to charge another loan to the ratepayers for a dollar
amount that's so similar to what the grand jury has suggested was
misallocated over the last number of years.
01:14:14.000 --> 01:14:27.000
Kyle Falbo: Um, so what I would recommend the public to do is watch
Council tonight. Watch the way that they engage with public comment, such
as Lee's, or such as that of the EFOC.
01:14:27.000 --> 01:14:44.000
Kyle Falbo: Listen to the way that they consider the interests of the
residents and their public commentary on decisions that they make
tonight. I think it'll be very telling to see how the interests of the
city, meaning the business entity of the city.
01:14:44.000 --> 01:14:53.000
Kyle Falbo: are much stronger. And for those candidates out there, I
think it's pretty telling to have your story be somewhat different than
what that is.
01:14:53.000 --> 01:15:03.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Kyle, for your public
comment. Next, I will come back into chambers, if there's anyone in
chambers that would like to make a public comment for an item not on the
agenda.
01:15:03.000 --> 01:15:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I'll go back out to
Zoom. If there's anyone on Zoom that would like to make a public comment
for an item not on the agenda, please raise your hand virtually.
01:15:12.000 --> 01:15:14.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, public comment is
closed.
01:15:14.000 --> 01:15:31.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: All right. Thank you. So we're
going to move on to our consent calendar. I'm going to go ahead and read
those, and then we'll proceed from there. Number one approval of City
Council meeting minutes for special meeting closed session. Meeting of
Monday, September 14, 2026.
01:15:31.000 --> 01:15:38.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Number 2, approval of City Council
Meeting Minutes for Regular Meeting of Tuesday, September 15th, 2026.

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01:15:38.000 --> 01:15:50.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Number 3, annual planning report
for City of Sebastopol, receipt of information on how the city is doing
in implementing its general plan and housing element, and in achieving
its fair share of housing.
01:15:50.000 --> 01:15:55.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Number four, approval of reducing
age limit for the, um…
01:15:55.000 --> 01:16:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: youth, representative on Climate
Action Committee from age 17 to 23 to age 15 to 23, number 5, approval of
resolution authorizing staff to prepare and submit a grant application to
the Caltrans sustainable transportation planning grant program.
01:16:11.000 --> 01:16:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: to continue the planning work
associated with the reimagining the core project. Number six, approval of
amendment number one to task order five with GHD for construction
management service for the Bodega phase two bike lane phase two project.
01:16:26.000 --> 01:16:28.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So.
01:16:28.000 --> 01:16:31.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Do any council members want to pool
anything?
01:16:33.000 --> 01:16:52.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I just had a quick question, just
for, um… just because we received comments on it, and then we received
an excellent explanation. Is it okay for me to ask Oriana as far as the
explanation for that one item? Yeah, we can have a brief question and
keep something on… Yeah, just very brief. You provided a different…
an explanation for that one item. I just wondered if you had a…
01:16:52.000 --> 01:16:54.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Couple sentences on.
01:16:54.000 --> 01:17:10.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you know what I'm talking. Yeah,
for the the Stg. Grant. Yes, the request tonight is just to allow us to
submit a grant. We're not committing to any particular scope of work or
parking studies, and we don't have any specifics yet about what those
would look like.
01:17:10.000 --> 01:17:29.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And, uh, that piece isn't the main
focus of the grant. The main focus is to engage with Caltrans and SCTCA
to further the study that we did do in reimagining the core. But anything
that we would, uh, commit to, including match funds, will come back to
Council and the Planning Commission to get further defined before it is
officially approved.

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01:17:29.000 --> 01:17:38.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, thank you. I just thought
that would be helpful for some. Okay, so then the next thing we'll do is
go out to public comment unless anyone has anything.
01:17:38.000 --> 01:17:52.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Mayor. So this is public
comment on the consent calendar items only. Again, if you'd like to make
a public comment, it is a 2-minute public comment for the consent
calendar. Is there anyone in chambers that would like to make a public
comment on the consent calendar items?
01:17:52.000 --> 01:17:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I will go out to Zoom.
If there's anyone on Zoom that would like to make a public comment.
01:17:57.000 --> 01:17:59.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: On the consent calendar items.
01:17:59.000 --> 01:18:07.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Lisa, can you unmute yourself,
please? Oh, I'm sorry. I will be right there. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Lisa,
can you unmute yourself, please?
01:18:12.000 --> 01:18:20.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: OK, we're having a hard time. I
will go ahead for in chambers first. Go ahead with your public comment.
Yeah, my name is Doug Yule. I live on Petaluma Avenue in Sebastop.
01:18:20.000 --> 01:18:31.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: For over a year now, A&M Barbecue
has been in violation of their zoning restrictions. Sir, this is just for
anything that's on the consent calendar. Oh, I'm sorry. No, that's okay,
I just…
01:18:31.000 --> 01:18:35.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Go ahead. Go ahead. Thank you.
01:18:35.000 --> 01:18:39.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So Lisa, there you go. Can you hear
us, Lisa?
01:18:38.000 --> 01:18:41.000
Liselotte’s iPad (2): Yes, I can. Can you hear me?
01:18:40.000 --> 01:18:42.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I can. Can you see the timer?
01:18:42.000 --> 01:18:45.000
Liselotte’s iPad (2): No, but that's okay.
01:18:45.000 --> 01:18:49.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, go ahead through public. I'll
jump in when you have about 30 seconds left.
01:18:48.000 --> 01:19:06.000
Liselotte’s iPad (2): Okay, thanks, Mary. Um, Lisa Pierce, Sebastopol.
I think it's important to understand that item 5 on the consent calendar
is a request for funding and grant application to study a problem that we
would be creating if we were to go back to a two-way street system
downtown.
01:19:06.000 --> 01:19:26.000
Liselotte’s iPad (2): The Y where Main Street and Petaluma Ave come
together by the art store works fine now, but it clearly would not work
if these streets were two-way. It is clear from the survey done by the
consultants and the many comments on the Sebastopol Times and Nextdoor
that most people in Sebastopol.
01:19:26.000 --> 01:19:48.000
Liselotte’s iPad (2): don't want us to go back to a two-way system
downtown. Once people take a deep dive on this issue, they realize there
are many unintended consequences and problems, mainly congestion, that
would develop if we were to go back. There are better options for
creating wider sidewalks, slowing traffic on Main Street, and creating a
safer and more inviting downtown.
01:19:48.000 --> 01:20:08.000
Liselotte’s iPad (2): than changing to a two-way system. In less than
one month, our city council will be different. I think that the
responsible thing to do before voting to spend more city dollars going
down this road would be to wait until the new council is seated, because
it may well be that going back to a two-way street system will not be
supported.
01:20:08.000 --> 01:20:09.000
Liselotte’s iPad (2): Thank you.
01:20:10.000 --> 01:20:13.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Lisa, for your public
comment. Next, I will come into chambers.
01:20:20.000 --> 01:20:34.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Hi, I'd just like to note that
there are no agendas with anything available for me or the public. So I
think it's an oversight that needs to be handled. Thanks.
01:20:34.000 --> 01:20:36.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.
01:20:36.000 --> 01:20:40.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Next, we will go back out. Kyle,
can you unmute yourself, please?
01:20:40.000 --> 01:20:42.000
Kyle Falbo: And…

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01:20:41.000 --> 01:20:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you. Can you see the timer?
01:20:43.000 --> 01:20:46.000
Kyle Falbo: Uh, I can't, but that's okay, I'll be.
01:20:44.000 --> 01:20:47.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Great. Great. Go ahead, please.
01:20:47.000 --> 01:21:02.000
Kyle Falbo: So I'm gonna go ahead and ask council to pull items three,
five, and six for clarification. First on item three, the general plan
report says 79% of the 458 action items are ongoing, in progress, or
complete.
01:21:02.000 --> 01:21:17.000
Kyle Falbo: fairly misleading, because what it does is it combines 318
ongoing actions with only 23 in progress, and just 23 completed. That's
only 5% that have actually been completed, while 94 actions have not even
been started.
01:21:17.000 --> 01:21:36.000
Kyle Falbo: And we're about halfway through a 20-year plan. So why is
completed implementation still so low? Direct staff to return with all 94
unstarted actions, ranked by priority, each with a responsible
department, target deadline, and estimated staffing or funding need. The
public needs an implementation plan.
01:21:36.000 --> 01:21:51.000
Kyle Falbo: Not just a blended percentage. On item 5, the Caltrans grant
might be worthwhile, but the process appears rushed. The call was issued
August 18th, yet Council is seeing the authorization only 3 days before
the October 9th deadline.
01:21:51.000 --> 01:22:07.000
Kyle Falbo: Is the application substantially completed? Did staff attend
Caltrans workshops, obtain District 4 feedback, and secure meaningful
SCTA participation or a letter of support? Going forward, please require
an annual grant calendar.
01:22:07.000 --> 01:22:31.000
Kyle Falbo: So opportunities reach council early enough for real
oversight. We might also want to ask Council Member Nisa Hinton whether
or not she was in attendance of the SCTA meetings that were related to
this grant opportunity. There was a number of absences in the recent
record. Item six, the requested GHD amendment lacks basic financial
context. What was the original task order five amount? What are the
communal amendments?
01:22:31.000 --> 01:22:47.000
Kyle Falbo: Actual expenditures, commitments to date, the contingency
remaining after this approval. Please also reconcile the attachment. Its

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table totals $38,750, but its closing sentence requests $64,656. Please
pull these items.
01:22:47.000 --> 01:22:53.000
Kyle Falbo: Require complete decision-ready answers before approval. I'm
really…
01:22:50.000 --> 01:22:52.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Kyle, that's two minutes.
01:22:52.000 --> 01:23:00.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.
Next, I will come back into chambers. If there's anyone in chambers that
would like to make a public comment on the consent calendar.
01:23:00.000 --> 01:23:04.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I'll go back out.
Steve, can you unmute yourself, please.
01:23:05.000 --> 01:23:08.000
Steve Pierce: Yes, thank you. I unmuted.
01:23:06.000 --> 01:23:09.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you. Can you see the timer?
01:23:08.000 --> 01:23:11.000
Steve Pierce: Yeah, thanks. I'll go ahead.
01:23:09.000 --> 01:23:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Right. Go ahead, please.
01:23:11.000 --> 01:23:23.000
Steve Pierce: I'm speaking about item five, the Caltrans grant. What
would the city do with a parking study, which is included with the grant
application to Caltrans?
01:23:23.000 --> 01:23:36.000
Steve Pierce: I think that parking really doesn't need to be studied,
because I don't think we need to create more parking downtown, nor do we
have the resources to do that. And I don't think we really want to lose
parking either.
01:23:36.000 --> 01:23:50.000
Steve Pierce: People complain about parking, but I don't think that would
justify building more parking. Unless the city is open to increasing or
decreasing parking, why spend our time and money studying it?
01:23:50.000 --> 01:24:00.000
Steve Pierce: My understanding is that when you apply for a grant, and a
parking study is part of the grant, then the parking study needs to be
done to fulfill the grant.
01:24:00.000 --> 01:24:02.000
Steve Pierce: Because of this, the grant applications.

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01:24:03.000 --> 01:24:06.000
Steve Pierce: should not include a parking study. Thank you.
01:24:07.000 --> 01:24:16.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Steve, for your public
comment. Next, I will come back into chambers. If there's anyone in
chambers that would like to make a public comment on the consent calendar
item?
01:24:08.000 --> 01:24:09.000
Steve Pierce: Thank you, Stephen.
01:24:16.000 --> 01:24:20.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I'll go back out to
Zoom. Lee, can you unmute.
01:24:20.000 --> 01:24:22.000
Lee: Yeah, I.
01:24:21.000 --> 01:24:24.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you. Can you still see the
timer?
01:24:23.000 --> 01:24:24.000
Lee: I can.
01:24:24.000 --> 01:24:25.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Great. Go ahead, please.
01:24:25.000 --> 01:24:30.000
Lee: Um, two comments, kind of piggybacking on what Kyle said, the, uh…
01:24:30.000 --> 01:24:31.000
Lee: the.
01:24:31.000 --> 01:24:32.000
Lee: Oh.
01:24:32.000 --> 01:24:36.000
Lee: the grant to look at Pleasant Hill Avenue.
01:24:36.000 --> 01:24:51.000
Lee: is vaguely worded, has no real meat to it. The explanation was,
don't worry about it. Once we get the grant, we'll figure out what we're
going to do. I think that's the same way that the reimagining downtown
started out sort of a nice, easy.
01:24:51.000 --> 01:24:59.000
Lee: to digest name, and it morphed into a two-way street proposal.
01:24:59.000 --> 01:25:15.000
Lee: promoted primarily by 2 or 3 people with some power in the city. And
I see this is is another path along another step along that path which

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doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Okay, it's a grant. The grants of free
money.
01:25:15.000 --> 01:25:27.000
Lee: Councilmember Hinton says it all the time. Not really free money,
there are tax money. It's the property tax money that goes to the county
that's coming back and being spent in the city. Maybe it could be spent
somewhere more productively. Um…
01:25:27.000 --> 01:25:41.000
Lee: The housing element, or the general plan report, general plan keeps
getting referenced as the reason we do a lot of things.
01:25:41.000 --> 01:25:59.000
Lee: It looks like it goes back to 2016. Maybe something as important as
this, it doesn't get talked about very much, should have its own agenda
item, and there should be a presentation. What is the plan? What are the
priorities at this point? What have we accomplished? All that should be
discussed so that people know what the general plan is, and maybe the
the.
01:25:59.000 --> 01:26:13.000
Lee: end result of that discussion is, you know what, this digital plan
is out of date. The city is changing, our priorities are changing, our
needs are changing, and maybe it's time to spend some grant money on
fixing that and addressing that instead. Thank you.
01:26:14.000 --> 01:26:21.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Lee, for your public
comment. Next, I will come back into chambers. If there's anyone in
chambers that would like to make a public comment on the consent
calendar.
01:26:21.000 --> 01:26:29.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I will go back out to
Zoom. If there's anyone on Zoom that would like to make a public comment
on a consent calendar, to please raise your hand virtually.
01:26:29.000 --> 01:26:32.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, consent calendar is
closed.
01:26:32.000 --> 01:26:46.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: All right, thank you. I'm back here
at the dais. Um, I would say I… for me, I don't want to pull anything,
but I do want to pull five and just vote separately on that, because
given my stance from the beginning and how I voted with that. But other
than that, does anyone else have anything?
01:26:47.000 --> 01:26:48.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay.
01:26:48.000 --> 01:27:06.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Alright, so can. So I guess what
we'll need is a motion for 1, 2, 3, 4, and 6, and then a separate motion
for 5. So I just like to make a comment on 3. Oh, sure. So number 3 is
the planning report for the city of Sebastopol.
01:27:06.000 --> 01:27:24.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And um… I'm sorry that, you know,
this is on consent as well. I don't want to pull it, because I know we
have a really busy agenda, and it would go last, and we wouldn't even
hear it, and it may need to be submitted. So, um… but it had some
really good information in it, and anyone who's interested in housing
and.
01:27:24.000 --> 01:27:38.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: what the RHNA, those are called
RHNA numbers, and the importance of those, because those are statemandated numbers that we have to build. And the interesting thing is, is
that the city needs more moderate and above-moderate income housing.
01:27:38.000 --> 01:27:39.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Umm.
01:27:39.000 --> 01:27:54.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And that's what that report said,
plus other things. So, I'm not pulling it, I just want to call it out as
a point of interest for the community if they're interested in learning
more about how the state… what the state requires in terms of housing
and what Sebastopol has already done.
01:27:55.000 --> 01:27:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Or is in the process of doing.
01:27:58.000 --> 01:28:01.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Is that okay to say? Okay.
01:28:02.000 --> 01:28:03.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Anyone else?
01:28:04.000 --> 01:28:10.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I move that all the consent items
except for number five are approved.
01:28:11.000 --> 01:28:12.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'll second.
01:28:14.000 --> 01:28:29.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you. So moved by
Councilmember Carter and seconded by Mayor McLewis to approve consent
calendar items 1, 2, 3, 4, and 6. Councilmember Carter? Yes.
Councilmember Hinton? Aye. Councilmember Zollman? Yes. Vice Mayor Maurer?
Yes. Mayor.
01:28:29.000 --> 01:28:36.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yes. Mayor motion, sorry, motion
passes unanimously. All right, then we need a motion for number five.
01:28:39.000 --> 01:28:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'll move consent calendar item
number five. I'll second.
01:28:46.000 --> 01:29:06.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you. So moved by
Councilmember Hinton and seconded by Councilmember Zolman to approve
consent calendar item number five. Councilmember Carter? Yes.
Councilmember Hinton? Aye. Councilmember Zolman? Yes. Vice Mayor Maurer?
Yes. Mayor McLewis? No. Motion passes four to one with Councilmembers
Carter, Hinton, Zolman, and Vice Mayor Maurer in support.
01:29:06.000 --> 01:29:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: All right, thank you. So we're
going to move on. We have no informational item presentations or public
hearings. We're going to go straight into our regular calendar agenda
items for discussion and our action.
01:29:18.000 --> 01:29:34.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Number 7 approval of amendment.
Apologies. I just want to point out that as the room fills, eventually
we'll get to a point where we have too many. And one other thing I just
want to point out is when it gets full like that, we have to have an
aisle down the center per the fire marshal. So I just want to make sure
that.
01:29:34.000 --> 01:29:53.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: just putting that out there as
things go progress, and I don't want to have to interrupt in the middle,
so if we get more and more, we're gonna have to, like, divide the room
like that. Um, so, number 7, approval of amendment to resolution number
6713-2025, establishing a standard enterprise fund oversight committee,
addition of a certified public account…
01:29:53.000 --> 01:29:58.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Manager, and our administrative…
who's… is it Anna or Oriana, both?
01:30:01.000 --> 01:30:19.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I guess it's me, Mayor. Okay. So
this item came from a recommendation from the grand jury report that came
in May to consider adding a certified public accountant to the Enterprise
Oversight Committee. This would be an additional member, would not
replace any of the existing members.
01:30:19.000 --> 01:30:40.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So they would just help us
coordinate the financial oversight with a different set of skills. So
we're looking for the proposed resolution would add a dedicated seat for
a licensed, certified public accountant to temporarily increase the

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committee's maximum membership from 5 to 6 for one year, so the new seat
does not displace any of the committee's existing members.
01:30:40.000 --> 01:30:42.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And we'll take questions lateral.
01:30:43.000 --> 01:30:47.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you. Questions, Councilmember
Carter?
01:30:48.000 --> 01:31:00.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: How big of a burden is it, do you
think, to find a CPA, considering that we've tried to find a CPA to sit
on the board, and had a difficult time seating the full board anyway?
01:31:05.000 --> 01:31:10.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We will go out, we'll do
recruitment as we do social media outreach, and I'm…
01:31:10.000 --> 01:31:20.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: assuming that council members and
as well as members of the EFOC will also help to reach out to CPAs to get
interested parties to apply. And what if we don't find one?
01:31:20.000 --> 01:31:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: then we would not appoint, if we'd
have anybody to appoint, the Council can determine not to fill that seat.
01:31:27.000 --> 01:31:34.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: But it'll be okay, the committee
will be able to continue. We would still have to have a quorum.
01:31:34.000 --> 01:31:48.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And it would be missing that one
space. You would still… if you have 6 seats, but one is still vacant,
it would be still, like, a council if someone's absent, you would still
have to have the quorum, so if there… if it's a 6-seat committee, then
you would still have to have a…
01:31:48.000 --> 01:31:52.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Quorum of four. Okay, that'll make
it super difficult. Okay.
01:31:52.000 --> 01:32:02.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Vice Mayor? Yeah, I'm wondering
about that composition, because that would create six… a six-member
board, and then you're gonna have… you could have split decisions.
01:32:02.000 --> 01:32:06.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So maybe, I don't know.
01:32:06.000 --> 01:32:12.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Just, I'm wondering about that,
like, maybe the city council member would not get a vote, possibly?

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01:32:14.000 --> 01:32:15.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Hello.
01:32:15.000 --> 01:32:20.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We could certainly modify lists to
do that.
01:32:20.000 --> 01:32:31.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I will say that the committee is
making recommendations, so the recommendation can just reflect that it
was a tie vote. They're not making any final decisions.
01:32:31.000 --> 01:32:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay. And we do expect, you know,
this is sort of a temporary thing until next year when the existing
terms, um, expire, and I think at that point we would bring it.
01:32:44.000 --> 01:33:00.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: back to 5, and sort of the Council
can reevaluate what it wants the membership to be. But the intent here
was not to have to take anyone off of the committee who's on it
currently, just to add this position, and then line everyone up at the
same time next year.
01:33:01.000 --> 01:33:09.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Some of those people might get
reappointed. You might change who you're looking to serve on or not at
that time.
01:33:09.000 --> 01:33:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, so…
01:33:11.000 --> 01:33:22.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So there's one person here who has
expertise in accounting, auditing, or another financial field, so would
the CPA replace that person if a CPA came on board?
01:33:22.000 --> 01:33:33.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: In the… in the spring? That's a
current goal, but as the Council may remember, no one applied who fit
into that, so it's empty, so you might decide right in the fall when it
comes back.
01:33:34.000 --> 01:33:39.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: that, you know, you're looking for
a CPA and eliminating that sort of more general.
01:33:40.000 --> 01:33:55.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That's less, less specific. Thank
you. And I had a question. Can you remind me? I was trying to look in
here again. I don't recall reading where it said how long this will be
out there just to manage expectations for the public. Like, when is this,
when is this likely to happen?

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01:33:55.000 --> 01:34:08.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: be put out there and open and
advertised and closed? So, if the Council approves that tonight, we will
start the recruitment tomorrow. It usually goes four to six weeks. We
leave it open, and then we'll schedule it before the City Council for an
interview. Okay.
01:34:08.000 --> 01:34:10.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Just for everyone to know.
01:34:10.000 --> 01:34:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you.
01:34:11.000 --> 01:34:14.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Any other questions?
01:34:14.000 --> 01:34:15.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay.
01:34:15.000 --> 01:34:31.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm more like a response to Alex. I
mean, we do sit with a budget subcommittee and a lot of our subcommittees
with two people, and it reports out if there is a draw or what each
person's feedback was, so I'm comfortable with a six.
01:34:33.000 --> 01:34:41.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Go ahead. How much do you think it
might cost of staff time and everything to try to get this position
filled?
01:34:43.000 --> 01:34:54.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It's minimal. It's to do the
display ads, to send out the recruitment social media-wise, and then to
receive the applications, do the staff report, and bring it back. So,
it's minimal staff time.
01:34:55.000 --> 01:34:59.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay. Any other questions?
Otherwise, we'll go to public comment.
01:34:59.000 --> 01:35:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Mayor. So this is for
public comment on the consideration of adding a CPA seat to the
Enterprise Fund Oversight Committee. If you'd like to make a public
comment, I come in chambers first.
01:35:12.000 --> 01:35:17.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I will go out to Zoom.
Kyle, can you unmute yourself, please?
01:35:18.000 --> 01:35:19.000
Kyle Falbo: All right.

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01:35:19.000 --> 01:35:37.000
Kyle Falbo: Um, so I absolutely support bringing independent financial
expertise into oversight of the enterprise funds, but counsel should be
precise about what the grand jury recommended and what remains undone.
The grand jury made three recommendations, all with an October 1st
deadline.
01:35:37.000 --> 01:35:52.000
Kyle Falbo: First, the city should commit by conducting cost allocation
rate studies at least every 3 to 5 years, and adjust allocations and fees
accordingly. Second, the city should reach agreement on the value of the
indirect costs that were improperly allocated to the enterprise funds.
01:35:52.000 --> 01:36:12.000
Kyle Falbo: and commit to a repayment schedule. Third, the city should
consider adding a CPA to the Enterprise Fund Oversight Committee.
Tonight's agenda item addresses only the third recommendation, and even
then, the grand jury did not require an uncompensated sixth committee
seat. The city.
01:36:12.000 --> 01:36:33.000
Kyle Falbo: is making that choice. The existing committee structure
already required a member with accounting, auditing, or other financial
expertise, yet no qualified person applied despite an extended
recruitment. Why should council expect that narrowing the requirement to
a licensed CPA while offering no compensation.
01:36:33.000 --> 01:36:35.000
Kyle Falbo: will produce a different result.
01:36:35.000 --> 01:36:47.000
Kyle Falbo: Did the City evaluate retaining an independent CPA with
defined duties, deliverables, access to records, and responsibility for
assisting both the Committee and Council?
01:36:47.000 --> 01:36:57.000
Kyle Falbo: More importantly, has the city complied with Recommendation
2? Has it determined the amount owed to the enterprise funds and adopted
the repayment schedule requested by the grand jury?
01:36:57.000 --> 01:37:08.000
Kyle Falbo: Loan forgiveness may be relevant, but it's not necessarily
the same as reaching agreement on the misallocated amount and committing
to repayment.
01:37:08.000 --> 01:37:23.000
Kyle Falbo: Please require a public status report addressing all three
recommendations, their deadlines, responsible departments, and remaining
actions. The agenda item tonight should not be presented as completing
the grand jury response when the central financial accountability
recommendation.
01:37:23.000 --> 01:37:25.000
Kyle Falbo: may remain unresolved.

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01:37:25.000 --> 01:37:32.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Kyle, for your public
comment. Next, I will come back into chambers, if there's anyone on
chambers that would like to make a public comment on this item.
01:37:34.000 --> 01:37:38.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I will go back out.
Mary, can you unmute yourself, please?
01:37:37.000 --> 01:37:40.000
marycone: Yep. Uh…
01:37:38.000 --> 01:37:41.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you. Can you see the timer?
01:37:40.000 --> 01:37:42.000
marycone: Thank you, Damon.
01:37:41.000 --> 01:37:43.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Go ahead, please.
01:37:42.000 --> 01:37:56.000
marycone: I have a suggestion. Uh, when we were dealing with Sebastopol
Commons, there was a CPA that made a big, long comment. I think his name
is Glenn Minervini-Zick.
01:37:56.000 --> 01:38:01.000
marycone: You might reach out to him. Maybe he'd be interested.
01:38:01.000 --> 01:38:02.000
marycone: Thanks.
01:38:02.000 --> 01:38:09.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.
Next, I will come back into chambers, if there's anyone on chambers that
would like to make a public comment on this item.
01:38:09.000 --> 01:38:14.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I'll go back out to
Zoom. If there's anyone on Zoom, please raise your hand virtually.
01:38:14.000 --> 01:38:17.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, public comment is
closed on this item.
01:38:19.000 --> 01:38:29.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: All right. Well, we're back here at
the dais for any comments. Go ahead, Vice Chair. Just to let the public
know, I believe Glenn has been invited to look at this, is that correct?
That is correct. I have reached out to him.
01:38:30.000 --> 01:38:35.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Any other comments? Otherwise, we
just need a motion.
01:38:35.000 --> 01:38:38.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'll go ahead and move staff's
recommendation.
01:38:38.000 --> 01:38:40.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'll second it.
01:38:40.000 --> 01:38:43.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: What is staff's recommendation
again?
01:38:44.000 --> 01:38:56.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: is to add the CPA seat to the
Enterprise Fund Oversight Committee. Okay. I'm just gonna say something
as the founding member of the EFLOC, or whatever the initials are.
01:38:56.000 --> 01:39:09.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I helped bring it and can't
remember it at all. The Enterprise Oversight Committee needs to act, and
we sometimes don't have close to a quorum.
01:39:09.000 --> 01:39:25.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Adding the addition of another
person could make our now scantly attended meetings even more difficult
because we have such few people like sometimes that's hard. While I'm
certainly not opposed to having a CPA, I would love to have one on there.
01:39:25.000 --> 01:39:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We've tried to have one on there,
but I do want to make sure that we finish out the year and are able to
meet. Without this person, if one doesn't exist, because it was so
extremely hard to have one in the first place. In the spring, we're going
to be able to add that person, and we can make it a stronger requirement
instead of an accounting-based person, a CBA.
01:39:45.000 --> 01:39:47.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay.
01:39:47.000 --> 01:39:53.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: May I just make a comment? I just
expect that when people commit, they should actually show up, so…
01:39:53.000 --> 01:39:59.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: like, we're all here. So, I'm just
saying, that's my thought. Um, but anyways, if we want to go on.
01:39:59.000 --> 01:40:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you. So, so moved by
Councilmember Zollman, and seconded by Mayor McLewis to approve the
amendment to the resolution establishing a certified public account
member on the Enterprise Fund Oversight Committee. Councilmember Carter?

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01:40:12.000 --> 01:40:13.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, thank you, Chris.
01:40:16.000 --> 01:40:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yes.
01:40:18.000 --> 01:40:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Councilmember Hinton? Aye.
Councilmember Zalman? Yes. Vice Mayor Maurer? Yes. Mayor McLewis? Yes.
Motion passes unanimously.
01:40:31.000 --> 01:40:48.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay. Go ahead. Okay. All right.
We're going to move on to number eight. Request of receipt of
informational report from the chief of police on exigent use of
surveillance cameras. This report is provided pursuant to SMC 8.80.040 to
advise the Sebastopol City Council.
01:40:48.000 --> 01:41:03.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: about the temporary exigent use of
surveillance technology, which occurred on Thursday, July 30th, 2026. And
I believe our police chief is going to take this item, is that correct?
Let me see… oh, you're right, sorry. I was looking for you back there.
01:41:03.000 --> 01:41:05.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I've taken a seat. Thank you.
01:41:05.000 --> 01:41:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So yeah, as you mentioned, this
staff report relates to an incident that occurred on the 30th of July at
about 3pm. Um, if I could just ask for a point of order, it was on
consent, and I pulled it, so I don't really think…
01:41:18.000 --> 01:41:25.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: from my perspective, we need a
report. It's more the concerns of the person who pulled the item. Is that
not correct?
01:41:26.000 --> 01:41:37.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: it becomes a discussion item. You
know, if the council… the rest of the council doesn't want to hear the,
um, report, then that's fine, but when it gets pulled, it becomes an
action item.
01:41:37.000 --> 01:41:39.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay.
01:41:39.000 --> 01:41:49.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And you're referring that it was
pulled last time, right? Yeah. I just want to make sure everyone
understands this was on an agenda previously. Um, but we ran out of time,
so…

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01:41:49.000 --> 01:41:50.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you.
01:41:51.000 --> 01:41:55.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I believe we should go ahead and
let you continue. I'm going to continue.
01:41:55.000 --> 01:42:00.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: See, as I was saying, there was an
incident on the 30th of July at about 3pm.
01:42:02.000 --> 01:42:06.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the Taco Bell in the north end of
town, with a…
01:42:06.000 --> 01:42:12.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: call received from the Taco Bell
that someone had gone through the drive-through in a vehicle.
01:42:12.000 --> 01:42:22.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And there was a female occupant in
the vehicle that had been in distress, was attempting to pass a napkin
to, um, one of the workers at the drive-through window.
01:42:22.000 --> 01:42:32.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And there was some back and forth
about that at the time, because there was a misunderstanding with the
nature of the napkin, with the drive-through attendant thinking it was
trash, but…
01:42:32.000 --> 01:42:45.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: All that to say that once she was
able to get that napkin across, it said, help me, and then they left the
scene. So that left us in a situation of trying to figure out what we
were dealing with. As it turned out.
01:42:45.000 --> 01:42:49.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We responded very quickly and had
an officer.
01:42:49.000 --> 01:42:58.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: review their internal camera
footage. Taco Bell were able to, fortunately, pull a registration plate
from that footage.
01:42:59.000 --> 01:43:05.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, subsequent patrols were unable
to locate the vehicle in the city of Sebastopol, so…
01:43:05.000 --> 01:43:17.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We reached out to the Sonoma County
Sheriff's Office because we believed exigent circumstances existed for
this woman's safety. She'd obviously articulated that she needed help,
and then left the scene.

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01:43:17.000 --> 01:43:22.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We weren't sure if there was a
human trafficking situation, or she'd been kidnapped.
01:43:22.000 --> 01:43:35.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Or some sort of, you know, domestic
violence situation was occurring here, because there's another male in
the vehicle with her. So, uh, we were able to get some information from
the Sheriff's Office that the vehicle had been detected on Santa Rosa, I
believe Santa Rosa Avenue.
01:43:35.000 --> 01:43:45.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And that was heading towards
Roanoke Park. So they notified the city of Santa Rosa and they detected
it in Roanoke Park.
01:43:46.000 --> 01:43:54.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: But while all this was occurring,
we were actively researching other means to try and reach out to the.
01:43:54.000 --> 01:44:07.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Uh, who we believed the female to
be in the vehicle, and through great investigative work between our
dispatchers and our officers, we were able to reach out to a contact of
that person, and eventually work through to speaking with her, and she
said.
01:44:07.000 --> 01:44:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I've resolved the situation, but it
was a DV situation. Um, so…
01:44:11.000 --> 01:44:16.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Our officers' instincts were
correct that it was an exigent situation.
01:44:16.000 --> 01:44:22.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: that we believe warranted the use
of that technology.
01:44:22.000 --> 01:44:27.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: but under the requirements of the
Sebastopol Municipal Code 8.80.
01:44:27.000 --> 01:44:31.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the surveillance technology, we're
required to submit a report to Council, so here we are.
01:44:34.000 --> 01:44:37.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Sorry. Any questions?
01:44:37.000 --> 01:44:43.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I pulled this to ask Alex some
questions. So it seems like with the police chief.

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01:44:43.000 --> 01:45:06.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and his officers did was all under
the use of exigent circumstances. So please explain what the legal
definition of exigent circumstances are. The code defines that as an
emergency involving imminent danger of death or serious physical injury
to any person that requires the immediate use of surveillance technology
or the information it provides.
01:45:07.000 --> 01:45:10.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay? And from.
01:45:10.000 --> 01:45:15.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: your experience and reviewing
statutes.
01:45:15.000 --> 01:45:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: it's a it's a from my perspective.
It's a broad definition. Would you disagree with that? Would I agree with
that? Yes. Okay, so it's broad. Given this.
01:45:26.000 --> 01:45:41.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and how broad the exception our
officers used to use mutual aid. One would assume that we're going to be
getting many more of these reports, because if exigent exigent
circumstances is broadly defined.
01:45:41.000 --> 01:45:58.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: then it's likely that police will
use the same method that they used here. Is that a fair assumption? I
can't predict how many there be in the future. The ordinance was adopted
in 2,022. I don't know if there have been.
01:45:58.000 --> 01:46:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Previous instances, I've been the
city attorney for two years. We've never had a report before or use of it
before. I don't know if the two years prior to that there had been.
01:46:11.000 --> 01:46:12.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, okay.
01:46:12.000 --> 01:46:27.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: that I can recall. So I wouldn't,
you know, be able to make a prediction about how often it might be used
in the future under these circumstances. Okay, I'll ask our police chief
about prior incidences in a moment. But as far as how this played out.
01:46:27.000 --> 01:46:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It was essentially from my
perspective a work around our ordinance, using mutual aid, and the fact
that they had means to not use mutual aid, but they decided to opt for
mutual aid, which then basically circumvented our surveillance by using.
01:46:44.000 --> 01:46:50.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the camera reads in order to locate
the individual. Is that a fair assessment, or no?
01:46:50.000 --> 01:46:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I would not say it's a workaround.
I think the ordinance authorizes.
01:46:57.000 --> 01:47:08.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: its use in exigent circumstances.
They could not ask for the mutual aid without the emergency circumstances
to begin with.
01:47:08.000 --> 01:47:27.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, as far as your understanding
of the data, because what we've been presented with here is that it was
just one picture, one picture of a truck, so don't worry about data
retention. Is that your reading of this as well? That is my
understanding, is that the police department simply got that information
and has no other.
01:47:27.000 --> 01:47:32.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: or never got any other data about
other vehicles, or.
01:47:32.000 --> 01:47:40.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Right, but everything that happened
from the time that they deployed for mutual aid, there was either emails.
01:47:40.000 --> 01:47:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Dispatching all that data is still
somewhere, right?
01:47:44.000 --> 01:48:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I mean, it just they didn't use
carrier pigeons. I mean, they yes, correct, right? So the data is
somewhere right. But that that data is not surveillance data. An email
isn't surveillance or dispatch call. I guess I'm right, but it would
still have potential confidential information that is still locked
somewhere. Yes, just like all the police department's records are. And as
we have another item coming up.
01:48:11.000 --> 01:48:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: other agencies have access to
what's in our database, correct? Our police database. It depends on the
database and what the request is. You know, state law provides limits on
that as well. Okay.
01:48:26.000 --> 01:48:35.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Alright, thanks. Um, to the police
chief, how many times within the most recent couple of years have your
officers, or…
01:48:35.000 --> 01:48:39.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Have you discovered using exigent
circumstances?
01:48:40.000 --> 01:48:45.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: This is the only example I can
refer to. During your time?
01:48:45.000 --> 01:48:48.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: During my time here, 18 months.
01:48:48.000 --> 01:48:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: 18 months. Okay. All right. Thanks.
I don't have anything further. Okay. Any other questions? Otherwise,
we'll go to public. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead.
01:48:58.000 --> 01:49:01.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, so…
01:49:01.000 --> 01:49:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Just heard it was 18 months, but I
have never seen a report like this that I can recall coming before City
Council. So could the clerk answer that question to her best recollection
as well, if we've ever, in at least the last 10 years, had this instance
happen in Sebastopol?
01:49:18.000 --> 01:49:19.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm not aware of that.
01:49:20.000 --> 01:49:21.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you.
01:49:22.000 --> 01:49:25.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, let's go on to public
comment.
01:49:26.000 --> 01:49:42.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Mayor. So this is for
public comment on the receipt of the informational report from the police
chief relating to the extension of certain surveillance technologies,
including ALPRs. If you would like to make a public comment on this,
again, I go to chambers, two minutes and I go out to Zoom.
01:49:43.000 --> 01:49:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Please?
01:49:47.000 --> 01:50:04.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The specifics of this are very
fuzzy to me, so I certainly acknowledge being ill-informed, but just
generally, I wanted to bring forward that cameras in the libraries,
cameras in the streets, and cameras in general.
01:50:04.000 --> 01:50:10.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: are not something that Americans
want. There's a huge uprising about the flock.

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01:50:10.000 --> 01:50:16.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: one specifically and just
generally. It's it's not.
01:50:18.000 --> 01:50:31.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It doesn't agree with the feeling
of freedom, the actuality of freedom, and constitutional rights. So I
suggest that our little town of Sebastopol, keep that in mind when
thinking about any cameras.
01:50:31.000 --> 01:50:36.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.
Next, I'll go out to Zoom. Kyle, can you unmute yourself, please?
01:50:37.000 --> 01:50:38.000
Kyle Falbo: I can.
01:50:38.000 --> 01:50:42.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you. Can you see the timer
still? Thank you. Go ahead, please.
01:50:39.000 --> 01:50:57.000
Kyle Falbo: Yep. So first, I would just want to say that the facts in the
report appear to present exactly the kind of emergency for which exigency
provision exists. A woman passes a note, I need help, appears distressed,
officers can't locate her through ordinary means, have reason to believe
she's imminent danger. I understand why our police department acted.
01:50:57.000 --> 01:51:16.000
Kyle Falbo: But this report raises a larger question for me, and about
whether Sebastopol should be accessing flock data at all, even through
mutual aid. There's an important parallel here to the Supreme Court's
decision in Carpenter v. The U.S. Cell phone location data consists of
individual observations that, considered alone.
01:51:16.000 --> 01:51:33.000
Kyle Falbo: may seem relatively innocuous, but when those observations
are collected, stored, made searchable over time, they can allow the
government to reconstruct a person's movements. The Supreme Court
ultimately determined that obtaining that kind of historical location
information.
01:51:33.000 --> 01:51:50.000
Kyle Falbo: implicates the Fourth Amendment. Automated license plate
networks raise a similar, although not yet legally settled, question.
Courts are currently considering where the constitutional line lies as
these networks become larger and increasingly interconnected. And that
makes me wonder whether Sebastopol should wait.
01:51:50.000 --> 01:52:08.000
Kyle Falbo: for courts to eventually tell us where that line is. Our
surveillance ordinance reflects a deliberate choice by this community to
place limits on government surveillance. Yet, even though Sebastopol

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doesn't operate flock cameras, this report demonstrates that we can
access the surrounding surveillance network.
01:52:08.000 --> 01:52:21.000
Kyle Falbo: simply by requesting information from another agency. Perhaps
the most protective interpretation of our values is that, therefore, a
bright line. Sebastopol simply doesn't use flock data, including through
mutual aid.
01:52:21.000 --> 01:52:36.000
Kyle Falbo: That might mean occasionally giving up a useful investigative
tool, even in compelling circumstances like this one, but constitutional
protections are often more meaningful when we establish them before an
easy case gradually becomes routine practice.
01:52:38.000 --> 01:52:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Kyle, for your public
comment. Next, I will come back into chambers, if there's anyone in
chambers.
01:52:44.000 --> 01:52:47.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I'll go back out to
Zoom. Leak.
01:52:47.000 --> 01:52:50.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Oh, I'm sorry, John, go ahead.
01:52:57.000 --> 01:53:01.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm just learning about this
tonight.
01:53:01.000 --> 01:53:04.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I agree with a lot of the comments
about privacy. I don't like cameras.
01:53:04.000 --> 01:53:08.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I don't like how they're being
used, but in this situation.
01:53:08.000 --> 01:53:17.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Knowing working as a firefighter in
EMS, how hard it is to get from dispatch the information and get things
going and get officers moving.
01:53:17.000 --> 01:53:22.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I really feel like what I've heard
tonight is that the Sebastopol Police Department did a great job of.
01:53:22.000 --> 01:53:28.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Saying someone's in help. How do I
get the information? How do I get there? How do I look for this person
now in the moment?
01:53:29.000 --> 01:53:43.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That's what they did. They used a
very hard situation, reached out to their neighbors, who had the
information to make sure that this woman's safe. Like, we can talk about
all the other stuff and not like cameras and stuff like that, but in the
moment.
01:53:43.000 --> 01:53:56.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: They made sure a woman was safe.
Isn't that what we're about is keeping people safe. So I commend the
department for what they did, and I think that was a great use of a one
time situation several years.
01:53:57.000 --> 01:54:02.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: if it became a habit, I wouldn't
support it, but things like this, I do support, so I wanted to say thank
you.
01:54:04.000 --> 01:54:10.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.
Next, I'll go back out to Zoom. Lee, can you unmute yourself, please?
01:54:10.000 --> 01:54:12.000
Lee: Yes.
01:54:11.000 --> 01:54:14.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you. Can you still see the
timer?
01:54:13.000 --> 01:54:14.000
Lee: Sure.
01:54:14.000 --> 01:54:15.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Great. Go ahead, please.
01:54:15.000 --> 01:54:30.000
Lee: Yeah, I can't believe that Councilmember Zolan would prefer that our
police ignored a woman that may have been in mortal danger and her peril
because there's a chance that flock hammers might be misused by someone
somewhere for something else.
01:54:31.000 --> 01:54:45.000
Lee: For many years our or the ordinance that we're referring to here
actually precluded our police from using doorbell camera to identify and
prosecute someone that broke into our homes and harmed our families. The
city has taken this to a.
01:54:45.000 --> 01:54:48.000
Lee: too far, and.
01:54:48.000 --> 01:54:57.000
Lee: People need to take a breath. I assume that everyone in the room,
everyone here that's protesting has a cell phone.
01:54:57.000 --> 01:55:14.000

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Lee: That's tracking and reporting your location activities using your
phone widely. You don't know who's getting that information. You can
block some of it, not all of it. Everyone using Zoom understands that
their web browser is sharing information about what they're doing right
now. The problem is much wider than a flock camera.
01:55:14.000 --> 01:55:30.000
Lee: But a flock camera used for this purpose is exactly the use that we
should all be encouraging. And at some point in time, somebody in
Sebastopol is going to get harmed. We're not going to catch somebody
because we didn't have a flock camera. And then we'll have another
discussion, I suppose.
01:55:31.000 --> 01:55:33.000
Lee: Thank you.
01:55:33.000 --> 01:55:39.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.
Next, I will come back into chambers if there's anyone in chambers that
would like to make a public comment.
01:55:43.000 --> 01:55:48.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, I think Doug, you will live
on Petaluma Avenue.
01:55:48.000 --> 01:55:55.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I think Councilmember Zolman's
point about the residual information existing.
01:55:55.000 --> 01:56:00.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: even though the camera information
hasn't changed.
01:56:00.000 --> 01:56:10.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: has been purged or isn't available
is relevant. I think that's something we need to consider, and I think
that's something that whoever.
01:56:10.000 --> 01:56:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: has…
01:56:12.000 --> 01:56:15.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: jurisdiction over this information
needs to consider.
01:56:16.000 --> 01:56:17.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you.
01:56:17.000 --> 01:56:21.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.
Next, I'll go out to Zoom.
01:56:21.000 --> 01:56:24.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: June, can you unmute yourself,
please?
01:56:24.000 --> 01:56:25.000
June: Yes.
01:56:25.000 --> 01:56:27.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you. Can you see the timer?
01:56:26.000 --> 01:56:28.000
June: Yes.
01:56:27.000 --> 01:56:29.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Great. Go ahead, please.
01:56:29.000 --> 01:56:45.000
June: Yeah, thank you. Um, yeah, I wanted to make the point about that as
well. It's not just the use of this, it's a matter of where the data is
afterwards. And I do want to make the point that in this case, the use of
the flock system outside of Sebastopol was not actually what.
01:56:45.000 --> 01:56:57.000
June: uh, led to contact with the person. It was other forms of
investigation that actually resolved the issue. But what we did learn,
that that whole flock system was utilized.
01:56:57.000 --> 01:57:15.000
June: The only reason I believe that we even know that that happened was
because the starter for the request to the sheriff's office was a use of
a camera, but we don't know, and I really want to get a report on, we
don't know how many times the police chief actually contacts the sheriff
to use the flock system.
01:57:15.000 --> 01:57:27.000
June: just because maybe they saw a license plate, or they have an idea
that they want to put forward. They clearly have a way to contact the
sheriff and send a message.
01:57:27.000 --> 01:57:42.000
June: And so I would like the chief to report any time he uses the flock
system or ask the sheriff's office for support in a case, and I would
hope that we have a record of that.
01:57:42.000 --> 01:57:52.000
June: Because there'd be many cases, maybe, that were you getting our
people and Sebastopol's information into that system, uh, where it didn't
start out with a camera.
01:57:52.000 --> 01:58:01.000
June: And so, I'd like to have more information on that, and have some,
uh, regulation on that, and so we know how that data's being used, what
kind of.
01:58:02.000 --> 01:58:09.000

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June: requests are being made, and when, to any entity outside of the
Sebastopol Police.
01:58:10.000 --> 01:58:16.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Jane, for your public
comment. Next, I will come back into chambers, if there's anyone in
chambers.
01:58:23.000 --> 01:58:38.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Cynthia Bradley, it is my
understanding that Flock Cameras… Flock is a private corporation, and
they can share and give your information to any agency or anyone that
they want to.
01:58:38.000 --> 01:58:39.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you.
01:58:39.000 --> 01:58:47.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.
Next, I will go back out to Zoom. If there's anyone on Zoom that would
like to make a public comment, to please raise your hand virtually.
01:58:47.000 --> 01:58:49.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Mary, can you unmute yourself,
please?
01:58:49.000 --> 01:58:51.000
marycone: Yep.
01:58:50.000 --> 01:58:53.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you. Can you go ahead with
your public comment?
01:58:53.000 --> 01:58:55.000
marycone: Yeah, um…
01:58:55.000 --> 01:59:01.000
marycone: So I'm wondering what everybody that is so against this.
01:59:01.000 --> 01:59:04.000
marycone: Would have me do.
01:59:04.000 --> 01:59:11.000
marycone: The next time I'm talking to, uh, girls that are in, uh,
juvenile hall.
01:59:12.000 --> 01:59:15.000
marycone: Shall I tell them?
01:59:15.000 --> 01:59:17.000
marycone: that…
01:59:17.000 --> 01:59:20.000
marycone: So if they're somewhere else in the county.

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01:59:20.000 --> 01:59:28.000
marycone: It's fine for them to hold up a card or something if they need
help, but not in Sebastopol.
01:59:29.000 --> 01:59:31.000
marycone: Um…
01:59:31.000 --> 01:59:35.000
marycone: My other point is…
01:59:35.000 --> 01:59:38.000
marycone: Uh, let's see, what was it?
01:59:38.000 --> 01:59:43.000
marycone: Oh, um, Sandra brought up at the…
01:59:43.000 --> 01:59:45.000
marycone: Uh, the forum…
01:59:45.000 --> 01:59:53.000
marycone: That a lot of you have, um, you're hooked up to the water and
sewer.
01:59:53.000 --> 02:00:02.000
marycone: whatever that thing is. I'm not hooked up to it, but that's…
that's collecting information about you all day long, every day.
02:00:03.000 --> 02:00:06.000
marycone: Yeah, that's my comment. Thank you.
02:00:05.000 --> 02:00:13.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Mary, for your public
comment. Next, I will come back into chambers, if there's anyone in
chambers that would like to make a public comment on this item.
02:00:13.000 --> 02:00:17.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I will go back out to
Zoom. Rob, can you unmute yourself, please.
02:00:18.000 --> 02:00:20.000
Rob: Great. Yeah. Hey.
02:00:20.000 --> 02:00:26.000
Rob: I guess I wanted to just say that I think what I'm hearing is a lot
of people conflating.
02:00:26.000 --> 02:00:40.000
Rob: Different issues. There's the privacy issue that people don't want
to be basically undressed based on the information that can be obtained
within a second.
02:00:40.000 --> 02:00:47.000

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Rob: People also want to be able to be safe and found if they're lost or
taken.
02:00:47.000 --> 02:01:01.000
Rob: I don't think that those things are mutually exclusive. I think
that… that if block cameras were something like HIPAA, where there's
legislation that controls who can see it, when they can see it, and
detailed records about it.
02:01:01.000 --> 02:01:04.000
Rob: It would be a different conversation. So I think that.
02:01:04.000 --> 02:01:15.000
Rob: If people were to kind of move a little bit more to the middle from
where they are, they would see that they're really wanting some of the
same things, safety and.
02:01:15.000 --> 02:01:19.000
Rob: Also transparency and then future safety later.
02:01:19.000 --> 02:01:20.000
Rob: Thank you.
02:01:22.000 --> 02:01:28.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.
Next, I will come back into chambers, if there's anyone in chambers that
would like to make a public comment.
02:01:28.000 --> 02:01:34.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I will go back out to
Zoom. If there's anyone in Zoom to please raise your hand virtually.
02:01:35.000 --> 02:01:41.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, public comment is
closed on this item. All right, we're back at the dais here for any
comments.
02:01:41.000 --> 02:01:59.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Looking down to the right and to
the left. Go ahead. I'd like to thank the previous council for putting
this ordinance that we have in motion, because I think it strikes a good
balance. We don't have flock cameras since basketball, but when needed.
02:01:59.000 --> 02:02:05.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: our police department is able to
have access to them and to help people.
02:02:05.000 --> 02:02:10.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And so I think that strikes a good
balance.
02:02:10.000 --> 02:02:31.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Mary Cohn was mentioning something
that I said on candidate form, and and what that was about was the

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utility meters on your home. Those are collecting data 24, 7, about how
you use your home, and all that data is available to can be given from
the utilities to the police department, and etc. Government, etc. And
they do. They give that. And that's a fact. So.
02:02:31.000 --> 02:02:39.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, thank you, Chief, for reporting
out, because I think that the ordinance, the camera ordinance that we
have.
02:02:39.000 --> 02:02:49.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: provides that transparency that if
you do use it, you report out on it. So, to me, that's great, and I
appreciate your work on this, so thank you.
02:02:49.000 --> 02:02:51.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Go ahead.
02:02:51.000 --> 02:03:09.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, I think we're talking about
two different issues, and I'd like to separate them, because we've taken
a clear position in Sebastopol about flock cameras, and this is a
separate issue. This is a woman in help who needed help, passed a note,
and I think about if it was myself or my daughter who wrote that.
02:03:09.000 --> 02:03:17.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and passed it to somebody, you're
hoping somebody does something. And in Sebastopol.
02:03:17.000 --> 02:03:33.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I like to think we'd all do
something and within our control. And so I'm sure that that went all the
way up to the chief and he made the decision. I mean, that would be part
of who is making that decision. And somebody in authority would make that
policy decision.
02:03:33.000 --> 02:03:48.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And then what is our policy? And
we'd use, even if we don't allow cameras here, I mean, we have all kinds
of rules in place. Somebody recently mentioned, and maybe it was a forum
I was listening to, if a child is lost, right?
02:03:48.000 --> 02:04:02.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: goes up, and we're all looking, and
that sign goes out. So, um, I appreciate the quick work and the report
out in full transparency, which is what we asked for. Um…
02:04:02.000 --> 02:04:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I feel like we did the right thing
in this instance, and it's a separate issue about what our policy is,
which I think we will continue to discuss with flock cameras. Um, but
this was a person that needed help, and we acted, and…
02:04:18.000 --> 02:04:27.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I don't know. I feel good about it,
actually. Um, and I have to separate that from the camera issue. And just
another thing, I mean.
02:04:27.000 --> 02:04:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: If you use ChatGPT or you use Siri
or you use all the things that are on our phones, there's so much, even I
heard certain TV companies are collecting data about what we use and what
we watch and what we look at.
02:04:44.000 --> 02:04:55.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And so, you know, it is the life
we're living today, I believe. So, those are my comments. And I just, I
had a comment as well, I mean.
02:04:55.000 --> 02:05:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: what do we do with data? I mean,
this is an age old thing. I think I got my masters in information systems
like 13 years ago, and this was a discussion back then as well. What do
we do? Europe's always been ahead of us. The right to be forgotten. Law
has been in effect forever in Europe, and we still don't have that here.
02:05:11.000 --> 02:05:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, I mean, in my mind, this is a
time where we use data appropriately, and we did the right thing. And…
02:05:18.000 --> 02:05:34.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I just think there's balance.
There's nothing that's black and white, and I will tell you that I've
been in some discussions with other North Bay cities who have concerns
about Flock, and they're actually exploring other companies and other
ways, more reputable companies, so.
02:05:34.000 --> 02:05:54.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: there's going to be a lot more
information, I think, discussed and and shared amongst everyone as this
as other cities grapple with this. I mean, we obviously have. You know,
we have our ordinance in place. We we don't have flock cameras, but I I
do believe that there will be other solutions forthcoming as other cities
explore this who do have flock cameras. And it's you know, it's.
02:05:54.000 --> 02:06:05.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: it's a very pertinent issue for
them right now. So, in my mind, I think we did the right thing this time,
and I'm glad that we could do something to help someone and use it the
right way. So…
02:06:06.000 --> 02:06:14.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, I don't want to speak to the
camera issue, but I do want to thank you for going the extra little bit
to try to make sure that this person was safe. Thank you.
02:06:15.000 --> 02:06:23.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, so I guess we need a motion,
Mary, is that right with this? You can make a motion to receive and file
this report.
02:06:23.000 --> 02:06:27.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, I make a motion to receive
and file the report. Second.
02:06:28.000 --> 02:06:42.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you. So moved by Mayor
McLewis and seconded by Vice Mayor Maurer to receive and file the report
regarding the Police Department accident use of surveillance technology
on July 30th. Councilmember Carter? Yes. Councilmember Hinton? Aye.
Councilmember Zolman?
02:06:43.000 --> 02:06:55.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm seeking clarification. So, the
motion is just to receive and file. It's not… if I vote in agreement,
it's not to say that I think that the report was fully completed.
02:06:55.000 --> 02:07:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: especially in reference to data
collection and the retention of it. Is that correct? That is correct. It
is just to receive the report just to receive and file it. That is
correct. Then. Yes. Vice Mayor Maurer. Yes. And Mayor Mclus. Yes. Motion
passes unanimously.
02:07:11.000 --> 02:07:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Alright, thank you. So we will move
on to item number 9. Request of receipt of budget at a glance format and
authorized staff to post such document on the city website. This would be
by our administrative services director, Anna.
02:07:26.000 --> 02:07:41.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yes, thank you, Madam Mayor. Um,
this item before you is a continuation from, um, September 15 regarding
the 26-27 budget at a glance. The purpose of this is to provide concise,
public-friendly summary of the adopted budget.
02:07:41.000 --> 02:07:56.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The Budgets Committee has reviewed
the original on, um, September 9th, and then they also reviewed the
revision on September 28th. Um, following the public comments, staff
makes several revisions to the Enterprise Section.
02:07:56.000 --> 02:08:07.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, the budget at a glance is
intended to serve as a high level. There's no other changes it's making
to the adopted budget, so with that, staff is recommending that.
02:08:07.000 --> 02:08:15.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the council receive and approve
this document for posting on the website.

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02:08:15.000 --> 02:08:17.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: All right, thank you. Thank you.
02:08:17.000 --> 02:08:19.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Any questions here?
02:08:20.000 --> 02:08:23.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: No questions on the left here.
02:08:23.000 --> 02:08:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: All right, then we'll go to public
comment.
02:08:26.000 --> 02:08:37.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Mayor. So this is public
comment for the receipt of the budget at a glance format and authorizing
the posting to the City website. If you would like to make a public
comment on this item, I will come into chambers first.
02:08:37.000 --> 02:08:41.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I will go out to Zoom.
Kyle, can you unmute yourself, please?
02:08:41.000 --> 02:08:43.000
Kyle Falbo: Yes, I can.
02:08:42.000 --> 02:08:45.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you. Go ahead with your
public comment, please.
02:08:45.000 --> 02:08:58.000
Kyle Falbo: You know, what's really funny about this agenda item, and it
getting pulled, and it being returned, and it being revised, and the
language being used, is that the city continues to mask.
02:08:58.000 --> 02:09:06.000
Kyle Falbo: The issues around water, wastewater, enterprise funds, and
cost allocation.
02:09:06.000 --> 02:09:11.000
Kyle Falbo: The reason this got pulled, and the updated…
02:09:12.000 --> 02:09:17.000
Kyle Falbo: reflects the need to clearly distinguish.
02:09:17.000 --> 02:09:31.000
Kyle Falbo: enterprise funds from general fund expenditures, which the
city didn't do for a very long time, and continues to not do. So the very
language that's being used in the agenda, being so generic just to say.
02:09:38.000 --> 02:09:41.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Kyle, can you still hear us?
02:09:44.000 --> 02:09:46.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Kyle?
02:09:47.000 --> 02:09:52.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We'll come back. Kyle, if you can
hear us, we've lost you there for about 20 seconds.
02:09:47.000 --> 02:09:48.000
Kyle Falbo: Come.
02:09:51.000 --> 02:10:09.000
Kyle Falbo: Okay. I think the message is clear. The city lacks
transparency when it comes to being clear about things like misallocation
of funds to enterprise and to not include specifically enterprise funds
as the justification for pulling this item and revising the budget at a
glance.
02:10:09.000 --> 02:10:11.000
Kyle Falbo: continues that narrative.
02:10:13.000 --> 02:10:21.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Kyle, for your public
comment. Next, I will come back into chambers, if there's anyone in
chambers that would like to make a public comment on this item.
02:10:21.000 --> 02:10:25.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I will go back out to
Zoom. Lee, can you unmute yourself, please?
02:10:26.000 --> 02:10:42.000
Lee: Yeah, yeah, some of the things that Kyle talked about, one of the
major things, it looks like it's been adjusted or addressed to a certain
extent. I think we're still showing total revenue, total expenses,
beginning balance, ending balance at the top.
02:10:27.000 --> 02:10:29.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you.
02:10:42.000 --> 02:10:46.000
Lee: Combined water, sewer, and city, which…
02:10:46.000 --> 02:10:49.000
Lee: I don't think you should be doing that, but…
02:10:49.000 --> 02:11:04.000
Lee: you're gonna do it anyway. A couple of issues, though, or questions,
and and I don't know if these are right or wrong. I can check it. General
fund reserves in the 1st section. I'm not sure what that refers to, but
it's only showing like a hundred and.
02:11:04.000 --> 02:11:06.000
Lee: 70…
02:11:06.000 --> 02:11:13.000
Lee: $1,000? That doesn't look right.

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02:11:13.000 --> 02:11:15.000
Lee: And then the.
02:11:16.000 --> 02:11:31.000
Lee: just a heading when you go down to water and wastewater section
enterprise section shoot. Where is it? Yeah. Enterprise funds on the left
is the Water Fund, I think.
02:11:31.000 --> 02:11:39.000
Lee: And it probably should say Water Fund there. On the right side, it
says Wastewater Fund. So I think you're just missing a heading there.
02:11:39.000 --> 02:11:42.000
Lee: That's all I see right now. Thanks.
02:11:42.000 --> 02:11:49.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Lee, for your public
comment. Next, I will come back into chambers, if there's anyone on
chambers that would like to make a public comment on this item.
02:11:50.000 --> 02:11:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I will go back out to
Zoom. If there's anyone on Zoom that would like to make a public comment
on this item, please raise your hand virtually.
02:11:57.000 --> 02:12:03.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, public comment is
closed on this item. All right, thank you. Go ahead, Councilmember
Zolman.
02:12:03.000 --> 02:12:20.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, I just wanted to ask for
clarity. Since members of the public referred to the fact that there were
changes since the last time that we saw this, because my recollection was
this, too, was on consent. I think our mayor pulled it because there was
a public commenter that had expressed some concerns.
02:12:20.000 --> 02:12:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So did staff change it from the
last time this was on? And if so, how are we to know that?
02:12:32.000 --> 02:12:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the… I did put the public comment
in the public comment session and also address it. What changed was from
the pie to the bar chart.
02:12:44.000 --> 02:13:01.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, the original was combining, uh,
revenue and expenditure in one single pie chart, and that was, according
to the public comment, it was not very clear. Um, the public made that it
should be separated out, uh.
02:13:01.000 --> 02:13:21.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: revenue should be its own, uh,
expenses should be its own with categories, and that was change. Okay,
just as a comment moving forward, if there's gonna be changes, it would
be great if we were flagged on the changes, and whatever got changed is
the part that's now circulating out in the public.
02:13:21.000 --> 02:13:38.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Does it have a revised date at the
top of it to let the public know that at one point they looked at
something where there were questions raised about this chart, the pie
chart, and now changes have been had? How would they know that unless
it's clearly indicated at the top?
02:13:38.000 --> 02:13:41.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Revised on such and such a date.
02:13:41.000 --> 02:13:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: They would not. We had the agenda
item on the last meeting that had that. This did go to budget committee.
That was another opportunity. And then this is the new revised. So we
will make it clear from now on for clarity to make sure that we can show
with.
02:13:57.000 --> 02:14:13.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Changes, red changes, what that
looks like moving forward. Okay. For more transparency. My request for
today is that when you do the minutes of the meeting is that you say, I'm
assuming we'll pass this, that it was passed, revised as a such and such
a date.
02:14:13.000 --> 02:14:14.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: 'Cause I…
02:14:14.000 --> 02:14:25.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: there were a lot of questions the
last time that we had this before us, and I want to be able to say it was
revised, and we passed the revised version, is my point. Thanks.
02:14:28.000 --> 02:14:31.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for that comment. I
agree.
02:14:32.000 --> 02:14:34.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Anyone else?
02:14:35.000 --> 02:14:38.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So we just need a motion, Mayor.
02:14:39.000 --> 02:14:54.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That is correct. It is to receive,
and we'll clarify the revised report as of tonight's meeting, to receive
the budget at a glance format and authorizing staff to post it to the
city website. Okay, so moved. A second.

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02:14:56.000 --> 02:15:10.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you so much. Um, so moved by
Mayor McLewis and seconded by Councilmember Zolman to receive the revised
budget at a glance report as of today's date, and authorize the staff to
post the document to the City website. Councilmember Carter?
02:15:10.000 --> 02:15:19.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yes. Councilmember Hinton? Aye.
Councilmember Zollman? Yes. Vice Mayor Maurer? Yes. Mayor McLewis? Yes.
Motion passes un.
02:15:19.000 --> 02:15:20.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay.
02:15:20.000 --> 02:15:39.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Moving on to item number 10,
Commission and Committee Work Plans Review and Consideration of 2627 Work
Plans for the Planning Commission, Design Review Board, Tree Board,
Climate Action Committee, and Public Arts Committee. Um, the such item
was scheduled for July 21st Council Meeting, but was not heard due to
adjournment of the meeting.
02:15:39.000 --> 02:16:02.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: per council protocols. I am going
to not read all of this, but hand it over to, I guess. Who is handling
this? Oh, from planning. Oh, I'm sorry. No, that's okay. I was just gonna
introduce our new associate planning from our planning department. Eli
Eli Ariel will be providing the work plan, and I believe we also have
representatives from the committees and commission. If there's any
questions for them as well.
02:16:02.000 --> 02:16:05.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Welcome and nice to meet you.
02:16:05.000 --> 02:16:07.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you.
02:16:07.000 --> 02:16:20.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Good evening, Mayor and Council
Members. Once again, my name is Eli Arriola, Staff Associate Planner, and
tonight I'll be presenting the proposed fiscal year 26-27 work plans for
the Planning Commission, Design Review, Tree Board, Public Arts Comm.
02:16:20.000 --> 02:16:38.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The city's standing committees
developed work plans that lay out their priorities, projects, and
objectives for the fiscal year. These plans capture anticipated projects.
They do not include routine ongoing work, such as permit processing and
development review, but also take up significant staff time and committee
time throughout the year.
02:16:38.000 --> 02:16:43.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The routine workload can affect how
quickly work plan items move forward.

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02:16:43.000 --> 02:16:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Staff worked with each committee to
review and prioritize their proposed items, taking into account
regulatory deadlines, grant requirements, council priorities, general
plan implementation opportunities, staff capacity, available resources,
and ongoing projects.
02:16:58.000 --> 02:17:13.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: In conjunction with the proposed
work plans, the Public Arts Committee has requested a return to a monthly
meeting schedule. The committee currently meets for two hours on the
fourth Thursday of every month in the City Hall conference room, and
determined that a return to monthly meetings would improve their.
02:17:13.000 --> 02:17:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Ability to advance projects and
accomplish work plan objectives in a timely manner.
02:17:18.000 --> 02:17:23.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The Design Review and Tree Board
has also requested an increase.
02:17:23.000 --> 02:17:27.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: in their meeting frequency to
return to meeting twice per month.
02:17:27.000 --> 02:17:34.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The board currently meets once a
month for 2 hours on the 4th Tuesday. The proposed schedule would
continue the regular monthly meetings.
02:17:34.000 --> 02:17:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: for project and permit review, and
hold a second meeting monthly for 90 minutes dedicated solely to work
plan objectives. This additional meeting would be held in the City Hall
conference room.
02:17:44.000 --> 02:17:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Staff supports this approach. Use
of the conference room and staff-managed recording and Zoom services
would reduce meeting costs by eliminating the need for outside video
production services while maintaining public accessibility and
transparency.
02:17:57.000 --> 02:18:03.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: However, staff recommends that the
increased meeting schedule be delayed for now due to current staffing and
workload constraints.
02:18:03.000 --> 02:18:08.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The Budget Committee reviewed the
Public Arts Committee and DRB requests.

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02:18:08.000 --> 02:18:25.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: for increased meeting frequencies
at their September 28th meeting. They were generally supportive of the
increased meeting frequency, but directed staff to bring back the request
in January or February of 2027 to reassess staff capacity. In the
meantime the committee encouraged Public Arts Committee and Design Review
Board members.
02:18:25.000 --> 02:18:30.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: To use properly formed ad hoc
subcommittees when appropriate to advance work plan items.
02:18:34.000 --> 02:18:39.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Staff recommends that the City
Council review the four work plans, provide any input, and approve the
work plans.
02:18:39.000 --> 02:18:48.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your time. Happy to
address any questions, and as Mary stated, we also have representation
from each committee tonight, if you have any specific questions for the
group.
02:18:48.000 --> 02:18:53.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, questions? I don't know who
hadn't, who, which of you had your hand up first?
02:18:53.000 --> 02:18:54.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you.
02:18:54.000 --> 02:19:01.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'd like to make an addition to the
Planning Commission and the DRB work plan.
02:19:01.000 --> 02:19:08.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and that is, I noted that the
Public Arts Committee and the Climate Action Committee. They are both.
02:19:08.000 --> 02:19:21.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: updating their websites, and so I
want to ask if we could add that for both the planning and the DRB to
update the website. Just, you know, go over it, make sure those websites
are updated.
02:19:22.000 --> 02:19:24.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Councilmember Solomon?
02:19:24.000 --> 02:19:39.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yes, and thank you, Eli, for the
report and welcome. I have a general question, and you might not be able
to answer this. Might turn it over the general manager, or ask the
representatives from the various bodies. I'm curious about just the
overall process.

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02:19:39.000 --> 02:19:54.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So we're discussing. And these
committees have asked us to approve their work plan, which includes staff
time overhead. All these other things. I'm still very unclear about how
they got to the work plan stage are.
02:19:55.000 --> 02:20:01.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Are they actually reaching out to
the stakeholders in our community to ask them?
02:20:01.000 --> 02:20:03.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: what thoughts they have.
02:20:04.000 --> 02:20:19.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: about how this body can help them.
Let's take public arts. Are we aware of whether when is the last time
they reached out to the center for the arts or any art institution in
this county, Charles Schwartz, just pick any one of them.
02:20:19.000 --> 02:20:36.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Right. It's like, how do we know
that these folks that we appoint are actually doing what I would assume
that they would be doing, which is reaching out to other community
stakeholders to help us move ahead and help them move ahead their agenda.
02:20:36.000 --> 02:20:54.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: how maybe it's too early in your
term to speak to it. If it is, I'm sure Mary could jump in. She also
attends these, or anybody from the bodies can ask, answer the question.
So, I would say yes, that they do. The Public Arts Committee, I know that
they definitely do. When they do the Call for Arts, they have been
working with the Center for the Arts.
02:20:54.000 --> 02:20:59.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: On that, the Center for the Art has
been helping them.
02:20:59.000 --> 02:21:16.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: create the portal for when people
vote on Project Arts and things like that. I also know that they have
been reaching out to outside agencies related to the Pomo art. I believe
they reach out to the Great and Rancheria Federated Indians. So they are
reaching out.
02:21:16.000 --> 02:21:32.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm sure we have someone on the
website, I'm sorry, on the call that could also address it probably
further, but I would say yes, they are. Okay, so that sounds with the
arts. And yes, I would, if the chair is on Zoom or able to comment, I'd
like to get the chair's feeling on this too.
02:21:32.000 --> 02:21:39.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: But I also, through the other
bodies that were asked… were being asked to approve their work plans, I
would like to know.
02:21:39.000 --> 02:21:41.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: From their perspective.
02:21:41.000 --> 02:21:53.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the outreach that's going on with
the stakeholders, because I will say I have heard from people where it's
like they serve, and they are not aware of the outreach, and as being.
02:21:53.000 --> 02:22:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the liaison to nonprofits. They
don't feel like they're being outreached to either. So I'm wanting to
know if we increase the frequency of the meetings, therefore incurring
and expending more tax money. What are we getting? What bang of the buck
are we really getting from this?
02:22:11.000 --> 02:22:14.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So that's generally my overall
question.
02:22:15.000 --> 02:22:21.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, Eli, can you check to see if
the chairs are on the committee? I'm not seeing…
02:22:21.000 --> 02:22:29.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Oh, there is… I'm sorry. Melissa,
can you unmute yourself? So I do have Melissa Hanley on, so she can
address it from her body. Melissa, can.
02:22:29.000 --> 02:22:56.000
Melissa Hanley: I can. Yeah, hopefully you can hear me all right. I'm
happy to turn on my camera too. It's like I don't have that availability,
but I'm the vice chair of the Design Review Board and here in Lars
Langford's stead as he is currently out of town. And I can speak to how
we came up with our work plan. So we started out with about two dozen
items that were solicited both from the public, from our own experience
over the last several years working on this body, things that have
routinely come up as problematic.
02:22:30.000 --> 02:22:32.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, thank you.
02:22:56.000 --> 02:23:12.000
Melissa Hanley: And also feedback from you as the council. I certainly
when I was reappointed to this board, I heard from our mayor about the
issues around our sign ordinance and concerns around enforcement around
the sign ordinance and sort of lack of clarity around what we're looking
for in the city of Sebastopol.
02:23:12.000 --> 02:23:32.000

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Melissa Hanley: So that really helped us to share, or to narrow in on
what our subcommittees are doing. So, to date, we've been tackling the
sign ordinance, we've been tackling the tree ordinance, which are really
the two main things that come before us with great frequency. And I would
say the second meeting is something that our board is really enthusiastic
about, because.
02:23:32.000 --> 02:23:52.000
Melissa Hanley: working through these, they're incredibly complicated
ordinances, and getting a quorum to both work through line by line by
line and agree on everything takes time. Both the sign ordinance and the
tree ordinance have been on the docket and being worked through for the
better part of 8 months, and the reason we can't get this thing across
the line and get it back to you is because.
02:23:52.000 --> 02:24:09.000
Melissa Hanley: We have other business that comes before our board and we
don't always aren't able always to agendize this and and get it really
sorted through. So getting that second meeting where we can work together
and really work through the details is just really important for us to be
able to get these important projects done.
02:24:09.000 --> 02:24:15.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Melissa. And we do have
Everett on from the Planning Commission. Everett, can you unmute.
02:24:16.000 --> 02:24:18.000
Evert F: Yes, hi, can you hear me okay?
02:24:17.000 --> 02:24:22.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I can. Can you go ahead with the
comment in responding to Councilmember Zellman?
02:24:21.000 --> 02:24:36.000
Evert F: Yeah, so we do something similar where we look at a bunch of
different items. We look at the realistic, what resources are available
to do those items and what we can accomplish.
02:24:36.000 --> 02:24:51.000
Evert F: Uh, priority goes to, for example, we have a couple items that
are dependent on funding, and that have to… we have to take some
action, uh, before the end of the year, for example. So we wanna… we
make sure that we address those items.
02:24:51.000 --> 02:24:56.000
Evert F: Uh, one is for housing. Street development.
02:24:56.000 --> 02:25:12.000
Evert F: So, we look at that area, and then, uh, we need to look and see
what we have still available, and what we might be able to accomplish.
So, and we also, same thing, take direction from Council on, I think, one
of the items. For example, the…
02:25:12.000 --> 02:25:29.000

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Evert F: We're asking, you know, is that something we should be really
prioritized or not and get some input from that. One of the items is
zoning cleanup and basically it's going through and reviewing a lot of
the.
02:25:29.000 --> 02:25:38.000
Evert F: Zoning, and some of it's inconsistent, or it's outdated, and we
want to make sure that it's all kind of cleaned up and coordinated.
02:25:38.000 --> 02:25:47.000
Evert F: And on top of that, we serve as the Parks Commission, so I've
asked that we at least visit a park a year.
02:25:47.000 --> 02:26:01.000
Evert F: to kind of just evaluate them and what they're doing. Is there
any low-hanging fruit type things that we can do to address it? And of
course, if we did anything like that, we would take public input as well
as staff.
02:26:01.000 --> 02:26:09.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And then public arts were already
addressed, and Councilmember Carter, I believe, is going to be addressing
the Climate Action Committee.
02:26:11.000 --> 02:26:28.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We've been quite busy and
definitely reaching out to the city more to make sure that we're working
together as a team so that we can do things for the city to save at work,
and then also reach out to our community through farmers market meetings.
02:26:28.000 --> 02:26:34.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: presentations through hosting
presentations from the RCP.
02:26:35.000 --> 02:26:41.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: CLAB, That's I don't know what that
Sonoma County transit.
02:26:41.000 --> 02:26:58.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Environmental group. Anyway, one of
them, I'm having a hard time with lots of letter soups today. But anyway,
yes, the Climate Action Committee is dedicated to making its work plan
more useful and not meeting for the sake of meeting, but to actually
produce.
02:26:58.000 --> 02:26:59.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: results.
02:26:59.000 --> 02:27:01.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, thank you.
02:27:02.000 --> 02:27:04.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Any other? Go ahead.

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02:27:06.000 --> 02:27:21.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, so in reading this, it looks
like we have staff time, but since we're talking about fiscal impact, I
just don't see any math on here, um, which is frustrating when you're
looking at a budget item to not have… to have staff hours indicated.
02:27:21.000 --> 02:27:23.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: But not…
02:27:23.000 --> 02:27:36.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: how much that really equates when
we're still in a fiscal financial emergency. Um, so I… I would like
some feedback on that from our, um…
02:27:36.000 --> 02:27:40.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: from Anna, if, I don't know if
she's here, but, um…
02:27:40.000 --> 02:27:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: that's that's a little frustrating.
And maybe you guys can put some money against this if the Budget
Subcommittee reviewed it. And then I had a question, for I just heard
from our planning commission, who said they are looking at priorities,
and he used the example, for example, vacation rentals.
02:27:57.000 --> 02:28:08.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And my question, I guess, would be,
are vacation rentals a current issue? Because I haven't heard that's an
issue. I know that we passed ordinances, and we've.
02:28:08.000 --> 02:28:23.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: dealt with that. And and so to
spend time to look at something that maybe isn't an issue for us. I would
rather have time allocated to things that we hear from our stakeholders
that we should be focused on. So.
02:28:23.000 --> 02:28:30.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That's just… Is that an issue? Or
who could maybe…
02:28:30.000 --> 02:28:34.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The Chairman of the Planning
Commission addressed that. That's my question.
02:28:36.000 --> 02:28:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Or how do you prioritize? So we
have the question, I don't know, Mary, if you're working on the finance
side of it, and then you had the question for…
02:28:44.000 --> 02:28:46.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Oh, is it?
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Who was it? Was it Everett?
Everett, yeah. Everett, are you.
02:28:52.000 --> 02:28:55.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Could we maybe unmute him?
02:28:55.000 --> 02:28:58.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, just a second. Let me see if
I can get him.
02:28:57.000 --> 02:29:00.000
Evert F: Okay. Can you hear me?
02:28:59.000 --> 02:29:01.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yes.
02:29:00.000 --> 02:29:02.000
Evert F: Okay, um…
02:29:02.000 --> 02:29:09.000
Evert F: The reason that that ordinance is on there was in the past,
there was some concern about…
02:29:09.000 --> 02:29:26.000
Evert F: not really having any coordinated efforts, uh, you know, as far
as rules. We've had some, uh, vacation rental requests come to us, and
we're kind of just, like, making stuff, you know, up as we go along, as
far as, okay, we're…
02:29:26.000 --> 02:29:33.000
Evert F: You know, how many, uh, how many should we allow in a certain
area, or, uh, do we need to have, um.
02:29:33.000 --> 02:29:48.000
Evert F: a limit, or, you know… and it's not necessarily that we've had
problems, but it's just in the past, when we've dealt with them, we have
come to a realization that we need some more guidelines and rules for
that. But again, that's why we're asking.
02:29:48.000 --> 02:29:53.000
Evert F: Council, if it's not something of a top priority, uh…
02:29:53.000 --> 02:29:56.000
Evert F: You know, we don't have to necessarily address it at this point.
02:29:58.000 --> 02:30:09.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, and then write the
finances. Do you need a minute, Mary? We can have… I'm not gonna be
able to give you the exact, but… so, if you wanted to add…
02:30:09.000 --> 02:30:24.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: for an additional public arts
meeting for 4 to 6 h. It is. It would be staff time for our planning tech

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and our associate planner. So you're probably looking for that about 6 to
$700 a month.
02:30:24.000 --> 02:30:29.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I mean, I'm sorry, per meeting,
which would be the additional one per month. And then…
02:30:29.000 --> 02:30:47.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: just a little bit less to have the
second design review board. These would not be, uh, meetings that are
Zoom… they would be Zoom meetings, but they wouldn't be like they are
now, the setup that we have. We're requesting that those be at City Hall,
so we can do them similar to our budget committee and things like that.
We'll Zoom them, it'll be public input that way, and then we'll post the
video at the end.
02:30:47.000 --> 02:30:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, can I just clarify? So, $600 to
$700 a month, and currently, the art committee meets quarterly, so that
would be…
02:30:57.000 --> 02:31:13.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: 2 additional meetings per quarter
for them. I thought it was every other month. I believe the public arts
correct me, Eli. I believe the public arts is every other month correct.
They are every other month times 6, and then for the planning commission
it would be design review.
02:31:13.000 --> 02:31:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Or design review. It would be one
per month, would be 12. Okay, thank you.
02:31:18.000 --> 02:31:21.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Go ahead, Councilmember Carter, you
had a second.
02:31:21.000 --> 02:31:40.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I was gonna speak to that. If the
meetings are held inside City Hall, the additional cost for outside staff
isn't there. So this is mostly an opportunity cost with current staff. So
it's not like a direct bill. $600. It's more like, what else could they
be doing during that hour?
02:31:40.000 --> 02:31:55.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and you know we have a lot of work
to do, so that all I was gonna say is, if we don't have to be in this
hall and rent out services. We don't have the same direct cost that,
like, say, this meeting is having.
02:31:55.000 --> 02:31:59.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: But Mary's estimate is correct.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah. Thank you. So we're looking
at what, like 4 to 5K? Is that my doing?
02:32:07.000 --> 02:32:08.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Perfect.
02:32:08.000 --> 02:32:22.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: How many more for climate action?
1,200 for, um, I'm sorry, 3,600 for public arts to add the one, and then
I would say probably about 500 for design review, so 5 times 12.
02:32:22.000 --> 02:32:24.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It'd be 6,000.
02:32:24.000 --> 02:32:40.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And then climate action also. No,
the climate action wasn't adding, wasn't. I think he was just saying,
giving an example of how we do those at City Hall, and it's less because
we don't. We don't have it, and all that involved at that point. Thank
you. So question I have is.
02:32:40.000 --> 02:32:50.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you know, when we… when we went
back and we did this reduction in schedule, it's because we've had this
fiscal emergency. So the question I… so I'm glad to have those numbers.
The question I have is, is…
02:32:50.000 --> 02:32:58.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you know, I have spoken with some
of the members of this, and I understand the importance of it, and, you
know, I feel like I have my head wrapped around it more.
02:32:58.000 --> 02:33:12.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: But for the purposes of, you know,
justifying this, you know, adding expenses back in that we cut out
because of our situation, how can we quantify, you know, if we did make
this change, how can we quantify in 6 months.
02:33:12.000 --> 02:33:23.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: if it's made a difference or not.
Is there… are there any suggestions from our committees? You know, and
I'm asking just because we… we did this because there was a reason,
because we… we really needed to…
02:33:23.000 --> 02:33:41.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: tighten the belt. So I'm just, you
know. Do you have? Has anyone given any suggestions on how we can see the
difference here? Well, I believe, as the Melissa stated, they could
probably get the ordinances through faster. I just want to say, as I
stated, the Budget Committee.
02:33:41.000 --> 02:34:02.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I can. At this time we have brand
new planning staff on board. I don't think it's the right time to do

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this. I think we should look at this a few months down the road. Eli is
brand new, and we would be, you know. I'm trying to get him up to speed
with with, you know, long term planning, short term planning as well as
what the you know design review applications. We have some major projects
that are coming on as well.
02:34:02.000 --> 02:34:25.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: that will be coming through. That
is going to take his attention. So I personally recommended as a city
manager that this be postponed for a few months, and that we look at it
potentially in January, giving planning staff an opportunity to get up to
speed. I see. Okay, well, that's good to hear. Go ahead. Councilmember
Zolan. Yeah, based upon what our city manager has said. I would move that
we postpone this.
02:34:25.000 --> 02:34:50.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And when did you suggest it be
brought back, Mary? I would say, at least January timeframe we can bring.
We need to take public comment. But I believe he's asking if we can
postpone. Yeah, yeah. So we you could postpone the additional meetings at
this time, once after you do public comment on that. So one of the
options would be to postpone that I'm not saying no to the meetings. I'm
just saying right now is not the opportune time to do it when we have
brand new staff.
02:34:50.000 --> 02:35:06.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and we are also now short staff at
City Hall, due to another, you know, a medical situation where someone's
out on leave. So I am short getting short staffed again. I see. So the
question I have just to further that is, after we do public comment, is
it possible for us just to take no action and postpone.
02:35:06.000 --> 02:35:12.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Or what is the best step forward?
You know, I'm just asking, like, what are our options?
02:35:13.000 --> 02:35:20.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: For… I'm sorry, for tonight?
Yeah. So, go to public comment. Yeah. And then we can come back, and…
02:35:20.000 --> 02:35:33.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the work plans, I would recommend
moving forward on the work plans. I would just not recommend the
additional meetings at this time. I see, okay. I just want to understand
options as I hear comments, so if there's no other questions, then we can
go to public comment.
02:35:35.000 --> 02:35:46.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Mayor. So this is public
comment on the work plans proposed for the boards, commission, and
committees. If you'd like to make a public comment on this item, um,
please, I go to chambers first, and then go out to Zoom.
02:35:46.000 --> 02:35:48.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: If there's anyone in chambers.
02:35:52.000 --> 02:36:15.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Good evening. Kirsten Lange,
President of the Santa Rosa Sonoma County Branch of the NAACP. Just
feedback for the planning process and the commissioners that are
listening online. While there's a lot of talk of outreach, I will say
that this jurisdiction is one that has not reached out to our branch at
all for any participation, meetings, community gatherings, and we have a
number of artists.
02:36:15.000 --> 02:36:41.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: business owners and contributors
who are constantly asking our leadership where our opportunities to get
involved and engage in Sebastopol, and that has yet to happen. So perhaps
in this re-review of work plans and how we reach out to community as a
city that prides itself on equitable engagement. We really think about
what that looks like across the board and across organizations that are
wanting to be engaged and represented in the in the governing bodies as.
02:36:41.000 --> 02:36:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: especially through your commissions
and boards.
02:36:44.000 --> 02:36:50.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.
Next, I will go out to Zoom if there's anyone on Zoom. Melissa, can you
unmute yourself, please?
02:36:50.000 --> 02:37:12.000
Melissa Hanley: Yeah, so just a follow up to my comment, I would say, you
know, there's two things to consider here. First of all, the return on
investment. Yes, we're talking about an hour of staff time and then
whatever it takes to publish that Zoom that is being recorded on a
laptop. And for that, you're getting anywhere from five to six board
members who are giving their time willingly to push significant endeavors
across the finish line for this city.
02:37:12.000 --> 02:37:32.000
Melissa Hanley: So I would ask that you encourage each other to vote for
this and make it enacted in January. Admittedly, not much is going to
happen as the holidays are coming up to the end of the year, but this
really should be greenlit for start in January. When we created our work
plan, we agreed that we were only going to put things on the work plan
that we thought we could do in one year.
02:37:32.000 --> 02:37:49.000
Melissa Hanley: So we are tasked to create a new work plan for every
single year, and we don't want to put anything on it that is going to be
in the parking lot for years on end and never really get achieved. But
the only way that we can achieve this and achieve the things that we've
been tasked with correcting in the city is to have a joint commitment.
02:37:49.000 --> 02:38:07.000

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Melissa Hanley: So you get one hour of staff time to 5 to 6 hours of
volunteer time, plus all the time that we meet outside of that when we
can only meet one on one. Otherwise we have a quorum. So I'd like you to
think about what your return on investment is and and what you're asking
people to give up and to try to push forward.
02:38:07.000 --> 02:38:17.000
Melissa Hanley: And again, you know, I was asked point blank by this
committee when I was reappointed to this board, what are you doing about
signage? Well, this is what we're trying to do, so meet me part way.
02:38:18.000 --> 02:38:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Melissa, for your public
comment. Next, I will come back into chambers. If there's anyone in
chambers that would like to make a public comment on the work plans.
02:38:26.000 --> 02:38:29.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I will go back out to
Zoom. Rob, can you unmute yourself.
02:38:30.000 --> 02:38:40.000
Rob: Hi, thank you. I don't know if this is a comment or much of a
question, but as just a person who lived in Sebastopol.
02:38:40.000 --> 02:38:43.000
Rob: I am having trouble understanding.
02:38:43.000 --> 02:38:50.000
Rob: how the commissions and the city council expect to get everything
done that, you know.
02:38:50.000 --> 02:39:03.000
Rob: that they seem to want to get done. It feels like things go to you,
and then they go to committee, or… and then they go to purchasing, or a
organization, um…
02:39:03.000 --> 02:39:05.000
Rob: And I'm wondering…
02:39:05.000 --> 02:39:09.000
Rob: When you mobilize the people, just the people that live here.
02:39:09.000 --> 02:39:10.000
Rob: And.
02:39:11.000 --> 02:39:16.000
Rob: Maybe it's the outreach, and that's just something I haven't seen,
but it…
02:39:16.000 --> 02:39:19.000
Rob: I keep thinking about how.
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Rob: You know, 150 years ago, if you wanted to raise a barn, everybody
got together and raised the barn. It seems like now it's you want to
raise a barn. You go to committee, you get the money, you hire somebody.
02:39:31.000 --> 02:39:33.000
Rob: They build it.
02:39:33.000 --> 02:39:36.000
Rob: The barn is raised. The people never have to be engaged.
02:39:36.000 --> 02:39:41.000
Rob: They never have to do anything. All they have to do is point fingers
at you guys for not getting something done.
02:39:42.000 --> 02:39:44.000
Rob: That's it. Thank you.
02:39:44.000 --> 02:39:50.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Rob, for your public
comment. Next, I will come back into chambers, if there's anyone in
chambers that would like to make a public comment.
02:39:50.000 --> 02:39:54.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I'll go back out to
Zoom. June, can you unmute yourself.
02:39:54.000 --> 02:39:55.000
June: Yes!
02:39:55.000 --> 02:40:00.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you. Can you see the timer?
All right, go ahead, please.
02:39:57.000 --> 02:39:59.000
June: Yes, I can.
02:39:59.000 --> 02:40:18.000
June: Yeah, I just wanted to speak to the question about in the work plan
around vacation rentals, and yes, that is a big issue, and it does need
to be addressed, and I'm glad that that was responded to, because I think
there's a thought that from in the past, when a lot of work was done on
trying to get an ordinance in place.
02:40:18.000 --> 02:40:35.000
June: that people think that it actually was implemented, but it actually
did not, actually, a lot of it was left undone, and COVID happened, and
things happened, and so I think, um, that's why we're hearing that they
don't have direction in planning, because we actually don't have in place
a lot of the work.
02:40:35.000 --> 02:40:51.000
June: And drafts that were drafted up and then stalled out and then
moratorium time ran out and other priorities came up. And so if you go

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back, I often have this conversation with council members that think
there is something and then they go and.
02:40:51.000 --> 02:41:11.000
June: check with staff, and they come back and realize there aren't the
directions that they thought were in place around vacation rentals. So it
is a big issue, an area of uncertainty and unclarity, and it really does
need further attention. So I do want to have a vote for keeping that on
track, and let us finally actually get.
02:41:11.000 --> 02:41:16.000
June: some clarity on that topic and get an ordinance in place. Thank
you.
02:41:16.000 --> 02:41:22.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Jane, for your public
comment. Next, I will come back into chambers if there's anyone in
chambers.
02:41:22.000 --> 02:41:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I'll go back onto
Zoom. Lee, can you unmute yourself.
02:41:29.000 --> 02:41:31.000
Lee: Yes.
02:41:30.000 --> 02:41:32.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: There you go. Can you see the
timer?
02:41:32.000 --> 02:41:34.000
Lee: Yes, thank you.
02:41:32.000 --> 02:41:34.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Great. Go ahead, please.
02:41:34.000 --> 02:41:53.000
Lee: Yeah, I think several issues here that are just kind of operational
issues that this council is going to change, hopefully, or I don't want
to say hopefully, it will change a little bit, but the next council could
consider when they start talking about priorities. And I think the first
thing that came out of this discussion was who sets the priorities?
02:41:53.000 --> 02:42:07.000
Lee: the Council is seeing different committees with priorities that
aren't Council priorities, and wondering how that happened. And I think
it happened because the Council hasn't really appeared, doesn't appear to
be connected to the committees in terms of.
02:42:07.000 --> 02:42:25.000
Lee: working back and forth about who, you know, what are the priorities?
What are the most important things? I put some of that on the committees,
because I don't usually see the committee chairpeople. I don't know all

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the members, but I recognize most of the chairpeople on the Zoom
meetings, for example, or in the meeting itself.
02:42:25.000 --> 02:42:42.000
Lee: And I don't hear them making public comments. They have the
opportunity to stand up and use two minutes to say, the Planning
Commission needs some help from you for this. And that doesn't seem to
happen. In fact, sometimes the Planning Commission seems to be out of
touch with what the Council's even talking about at the most recent
meeting in terms of issues.
02:42:42.000 --> 02:42:46.000
Lee: So that needs to be tightened up somehow. And then…
02:42:46.000 --> 02:42:48.000
Lee: uh…
02:42:48.000 --> 02:42:50.000
Lee: I guess that's it. Thank you.
02:42:50.000 --> 02:42:56.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Lee, for your public
comment. Next, I will come back into chambers, if there's anyone in
chambers.
02:42:56.000 --> 02:43:02.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I will go back out to
Zoom. If there's anyone on Zoom that would like to make a public comment,
please raise your hand.
02:43:02.000 --> 02:43:04.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, public comment is
closed on this item.
02:43:05.000 --> 02:43:09.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Go ahead, I have a question
whenever, if you were gonna make a motion.
02:43:10.000 --> 02:43:13.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Oh, go ahead. Go ahead and then
I'll ask.
02:43:14.000 --> 02:43:30.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Well, A, I always want to thank all
the volunteers for their work. So these are all volunteers on these
commissions, and we appoint them, and I appreciate all their work and
tackling these.
02:43:30.000 --> 02:43:48.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: With that said, I have been
consistent to say that I want to wait before spending money, um, until
mid-year budget review, and this is spending money. In addition to,
we've, as pointed out by staff, that we have a brand new person in our
planning department.

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02:43:48.000 --> 02:44:07.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: who's not up to speed yet. So that
is priority before, especially before we spend more money. I heard that
the work plans are meant for the recommendations of a number of meetings,
but I really appreciate that they are prioritized. So I would think that
we can.
02:44:07.000 --> 02:44:14.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: prioritize and follow the in order
of priority that each work plan starts and and that.
02:44:14.000 --> 02:44:31.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: does happen to meet a lot of
Council's goals. Centennial Project was on our goals. Transportation
grants are on our goals and housing. So when I go down there, I feel like
they can get started. We could wait till mid-year budget.
02:44:31.000 --> 02:44:42.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: we can make a decision at that
point if we have the money to add these new frequencies in, and it gives
us a chance to get staff up to date. So those are my comments. And I have
a clarifying question.
02:44:42.000 --> 02:44:49.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and I was rereading all of this
again, just to make sure I wasn't missing. So, just to clarify what…
what…
02:44:49.000 --> 02:44:59.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: um… the committees are asking is
they want to start immediately with… with having the increase in
meetings, and the Budget Committee recommended January, February. Is that
correct?
02:44:59.000 --> 02:45:01.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Am I understanding that?
02:45:02.000 --> 02:45:20.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yes, after discussion, so the
Budget Committee agreed that right now would not be the opportune time to
do it because of the staffing situation that we have going on, but they
did not say no to… they wanted to look at it in January timeframe. Got
it, and that's only a couple months. Um, and then the other question I
have is, I know we brought both forth… both committees.
02:45:20.000 --> 02:45:35.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So in my mind, I'm just trying to
figure out like, is there? Is there a partial? Yes, anywhere or not. I
mean with both of these committees, I mean, do either of them have like
really pressing work that requires increased time right now, based on
your assessment, because I you're the expert with this.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Well, I think for design review, I
mean, there are… they're working on the ordinances right now, so I
believe that is what their second meeting is for, is that they wanted to
work specifically on those ordinances. Like the strategy moving forward.
Right. But because they are public…
02:45:49.000 --> 02:45:55.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: um, Standing Brown Act meetings,
staff does need to be there. Got it. Go ahead.
02:45:55.000 --> 02:46:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Well, and I just wanted to add to
my original comments. I did look at, I believe it is when the art
committee meets, and I thought, I think the suggestion was to add another
90 minutes, but we could add another hour. For example, they meet, I
believe, one to three right now.
02:46:11.000 --> 02:46:21.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: they could meet 1 to 4. I just kind
of look at how long our meetings go, and we can get a lot done in 3 hours
versus 2.
02:46:21.000 --> 02:46:31.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And it would be like, then they'd
have one meeting instead of two separate. It would seem like that might
be a suggestion for them to look at instead of, um…
02:46:31.000 --> 02:46:48.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: an entire additional meeting, per
se. That's a good question. Is that… is that something that… I think
that was discussed at Public Arts, and their recommendation is that
because of the timing in between, they would like to have… not have a
month in between to get another project done, or if they had a call for
art, so…
02:46:48.000 --> 02:46:53.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: They wanted to see an additional
meeting monthly to be able to continue their work.
02:46:53.000 --> 02:46:55.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Rather than adding an hour.
02:46:55.000 --> 02:47:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, I wanted to look over here
real quick. Just council. I mean, vice mayor. Sorry. So let's see. Dark
sky was a resident led project, and I just wanted to point that out. I
know residents are have been calling for that.
02:47:11.000 --> 02:47:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And I'd like to request that the
Planning Commission and Drb.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: do city website updates like the
PAC and the CAC are doing.
02:47:25.000 --> 02:47:36.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: For the Public Arts Committee, I'd
like to ask for them to add the honoring of the Charles Schultz artwork
that the council, that was the council goal.
02:47:36.000 --> 02:47:59.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and I I had done some research on
that. There was some feedback from the Council that they didn't want like
sculptures like all the other cities have. But I found this character
called 9, 5, 4, 7, 2, which is our zip code, and I thought it might be
fun to have a mural. So I kind of wanted to have that on there. I didn't
see that on their work plan.
02:47:59.000 --> 02:48:08.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And I'd like to see that, so I'm
proposing that we add that, if you all are willing to add that to their
work plan.
02:48:08.000 --> 02:48:13.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And the other thing is, on the
Climate Action Committee work plan, they are…
02:48:13.000 --> 02:48:29.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: wanting this city to promote Evs
bikes and e-bikes, and I want to be sure that there's safety involved in
that education, ie. Safety involved with e-bikes and e-bike promotion.
02:48:29.000 --> 02:48:30.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, so…
02:48:30.000 --> 02:48:38.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Because I don't feel like I can, in
good conscience, promote e-bikes or EV bikes without.
02:48:38.000 --> 02:48:41.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: having safety included in that.
02:48:43.000 --> 02:48:59.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay. And regarding the one last
thing is regarding the frequency of the meetings. I would like to support
their request. I would also like to see us not have to bring it back and
discuss it again. It'd be great if we could just.
02:48:59.000 --> 02:49:14.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: say, okay, either the second
meeting in January or the 1st meeting in February. You can return to this
to these more frequent meetings rather than having to bring it back and
discuss it again. So not sure how you all feel about that. But that would
be my proposal.
02:49:15.000 --> 02:49:37.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Well, I just have a comment. I hear
you on these projects. For me, it just feels like if this doesn't get
approved tonight, but yet we're adding to the workload, it seems very
disjointed, like add to the workload, but we're not giving you the time
to do it. I just wondered, I too have been pushing, you know, pushing for
things at mid-year. I wonder if there is a compromise, and I want to know
from you, Mary, if that.
02:49:37.000 --> 02:49:50.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: that adding an hour now, and then
bringing it mid-year, and then, you know, I know it's not the exact
solution that everyone's seeking, but trying to find some kind of
compromise in between, because I understand the work that needs to be
done.
02:49:50.000 --> 02:49:56.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, and I also understand having
new staff, because I'm in the same situation right now, my day job, so…
02:49:56.000 --> 02:50:12.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Is that a compromise that… I'm
not going to be able to answer that, because I'm going to need to go back
to staff to see what other meetings that they may have after these
meetings that may trigger that. So, they're set meetings, and so they may
have scheduled other meetings after that, so I can't address that right
now.
02:50:12.000 --> 02:50:27.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I see. Go ahead. So I really have 2
things. I mean the the 1st is just to defend the committee's work plan.
It makes it a work plan. I think sticking to general concepts are the
best for the Council to outlay to the committees.
02:50:27.000 --> 02:50:45.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: because they are, you know, for the
1 or 2 h of staff time does unlock 5 or 6 people who do homework and work
outside of the of the meeting itself. So it's really exponential. What
these, what these groups get done.
02:50:45.000 --> 02:50:51.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: But I want to echo Vice Mayor
Mowers.
02:50:51.000 --> 02:50:56.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: comment about like, can we just go
ahead and act tonight? Say, like on the 1st.
02:50:56.000 --> 02:51:01.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: You can do the schedule that you
would like to do.
02:51:03.000 --> 02:51:20.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That would be up to the will of the
Council if the Council wants to. If you have 3 or more votes to bring.

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Your biggest concern is bringing on board doing the onboarding. I have
new staff right now. Yeah, and we will be. It's part of my committee
report, as we'll also be transitioning in.
02:51:21.000 --> 02:51:38.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: a new planning director to be
following up, you know, to take out the new con… the current contract
right now for the next few months, so we're going to be transitioning out
the current one for a new one, so I have new staff coming on right now,
so that is why I'm actually… I'm advocating for not trying to do this
right now. But, like, January or February, which one would be…
02:51:39.000 --> 02:51:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: If we took our Vice Mayor's
suggestion for that, I'm just curious.
02:51:44.000 --> 02:51:51.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I would probably say with a couple
of projects going on, I would be comfortable for February.
02:51:52.000 --> 02:51:54.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay. But that's…
02:51:54.000 --> 02:52:03.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you know, just as a reminder, it…
with these new projects, or not new projects, but we do have some major
projects coming forward from the Planning Commission and Design Review.
02:52:03.000 --> 02:52:06.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So I would say February. Got it.
02:52:09.000 --> 02:52:16.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I understand the wanting to move it
forward, but now we've had suggestions of changing the work plan.
02:52:16.000 --> 02:52:32.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the staff has clearly got no one
to. They feel comfortable to take this work now, and we're talking
February, October, November, December. I would like to see this agenda
item come back, be corrected.
02:52:32.000 --> 02:52:48.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: it does feel a little just
disjointed that the peanuts thing we've discussed at least twice in these
council meetings is not on the work plan, and I'd like them to take
another look at it and bring us back the work plan that with looking at
council goals.
02:52:48.000 --> 02:53:08.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: it doesn't take that long to come
back to a meeting and reconsider it. I agree, and then also the options,
the options that we talked about extending the one meeting, you know, the
long… and I understand, I've spoken with them, and I understand the

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needs for all of this, so I'm just trying to figure out the best way to
forward for the city and for the compromise.
02:53:08.000 --> 02:53:17.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm not sure I'm ready to
compromise up until January, but I would like to bring this back at our
second January meeting.
02:53:17.000 --> 02:53:23.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Not to do, but to discuss. You mean
as the Budget Committee recommended?
02:53:25.000 --> 02:53:40.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I don't know. I'm I'm sorry. Go
ahead. Question. If the Council agrees, can items be added like I
suggested the website updates and the Charles Schultz mural. Can those be
added from us, or does.
02:53:40.000 --> 02:53:42.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Is there a different process?
02:53:42.000 --> 02:53:52.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The Council is the overall policy
setter for the Board's Commission and Committees. Okay. So, if the
Council votes majority to add something to the work plan.
02:53:52.000 --> 02:53:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: that'd be up to the Council
decision tonight. You have… Can I… can I ask for a straw poll, then?
02:53:59.000 --> 02:54:08.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I can do that? Okay, so I'm gonna
ask for a straw poll for the Design Review Board and the Planning
Commission to do website updates.
02:54:08.000 --> 02:54:21.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Sure. Yep. Yeah, thank you. And
then I want, uh, to know if you would support adding the Honoring Charles
Schulz Mural 95472 to the Public Arts Committee.
02:54:22.000 --> 02:54:23.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I. Wow.
02:54:23.000 --> 02:54:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Well, I say that, but I…
02:54:26.000 --> 02:54:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: only if we're actually giving them
the hours to work because we have workload. But you know, I mean, doesn't
feels disingenuous to add more work. Okay? And then hours. The other one
is to add safety to the education of on Ev and E by promotion.
02:54:44.000 --> 02:54:47.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: to add safety education as well.

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02:54:48.000 --> 02:54:52.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Whose responsibility is that? I
don't understand. Go at it. It's fine.
02:54:52.000 --> 02:55:01.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay. Wait. Well, that's you.
Everyone else? Anybody else want to weigh in on this?
02:55:01.000 --> 02:55:19.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: as a as a Climate Action Committee
person. I I feel like it for me. That's just a little too much. I need to
understand more about like what the intent is, and it feels like a much
more. It feels like a whole topic for us to discuss as a council. The the
the Ev and ebike ebikes can be quite dangerous.
02:55:19.000 --> 02:55:30.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And I think if the city is having
this on a work plan and the city is promoting them, they need to promote
safety. For me, that's really important. So I… I would…
02:55:31.000 --> 02:55:46.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, I… But if you don't agree,
that's… I'm just doing that straw poll to find out where you stand on
this, so… Got it. It's not on the… it's… I mean… I think that I
would wait for their recommendation. It's on their work plan to study,
and we are their ultimate decision makers, so I wouldn't add it tonight.
02:55:46.000 --> 02:55:53.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I personally wasn't either tonight.
And then the last one would be to.
02:55:53.000 --> 02:55:59.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: to grant their requests for more
frequent meetings starting in the first meeting in February.
02:56:01.000 --> 02:56:03.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Still looking for a straw poll.
02:56:03.000 --> 02:56:08.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I feel like that's, we're making a
motion or we're not. Okay.
02:56:11.000 --> 02:56:17.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: All right, so I will make a motion
to approve the work plans.
02:56:17.000 --> 02:56:32.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: including website updates for the
Planning Commission and the Design Review Board, and to add the, um, to
the Public Arts Committee, the mural to, uh, the mural 95472 to honor
Charles Schultz.
02:56:32.000 --> 02:56:40.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And to bring back the issue of more
frequent meetings at mid-year or say in February.
02:56:41.000 --> 02:56:43.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That's my motion.
02:56:44.000 --> 02:57:02.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Did you say mid-year or February?
Because I've heard him. I've heard January. I've heard mid-year. I've
heard February. So February. I prefer to bring it back in January so that
we could enact it, and they could do start meeting in February. Okay,
I'll amend that to make it January.
02:57:02.000 --> 02:57:05.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Bring it back in January. Then I'll
second that.
02:57:07.000 --> 02:57:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So I just want to be clear, we're
bringing that back for mid-year budget.
02:57:12.000 --> 02:57:19.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: to discuss. We're gonna bring it
back in January to discuss the more frequent meetings requested.
02:57:21.000 --> 02:57:24.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I just want to say for me.
02:57:24.000 --> 02:57:43.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I am supportive of bringing it back
and considering that, you know, having more frequent meetings. I would
just like to say, if it is coming back, I'd like to see more detail in
this report as far as, like we said, I know you gave us the cost tonight,
but costing it out and giving us all the information, because when we cut
it, we based it on numbers, so we should look at all of that just for
public transparency.
02:57:43.000 --> 02:57:58.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And I understand the work, and I
want the people who are listening to know that I do absolutely understand
that, but we also have to take the recommendations of what we can do. If
we commit to something and then we can't fulfill it because we don't have
the staffing, then we've set ourselves up for failure. So it's…
02:57:58.000 --> 02:58:03.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It's a conundrum. So anyone else, I
think?
02:58:03.000 --> 02:58:05.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Councilmember Hinton.
02:58:06.000 --> 02:58:19.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Uh, can I just ask a clarifying
question? When do we expect the mid-year review recommendations to come
back to Council? Typically, we don't do those until February. February.
02:58:25.000 --> 02:58:29.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'd like to see this come back with
those. I just need to say that.
02:58:30.000 --> 02:58:40.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, because this is a request for
money, so I'm asking the motion and the seconder if they would consider
moving it to the date to come back.
02:58:40.000 --> 02:58:41.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: with.
02:58:41.000 --> 02:58:47.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: mid-year budget, all the
recommendations, so we can decide about all our demands.
02:58:49.000 --> 02:58:52.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Oh, okay. I'll move mid your
budget.
02:58:52.000 --> 02:58:54.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So amended.
02:58:59.000 --> 02:59:02.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Can I just get a clarification?
We're approving…
02:59:02.000 --> 02:59:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the work plans, but bringing back
the items requested for the mid year other than the updating the website,
the Charles Schultz, 9, 5, 4, 3, 7, 3 mural. You want to see
consideration of the option for extending it for 1 h. I don't know if
that was that was discussed, but I just wanted to clarify if that's a
part of the motion, and then bringing back the items at mid year.
02:59:26.000 --> 02:59:27.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Review.
02:59:27.000 --> 02:59:37.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: just… just to be clear, the
request was for the website updates for the Planning Commission and DRB
to be added now to the work plan.
02:59:37.000 --> 02:59:45.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And adding the, uh, honoring
Charles Schultz 95472 mural to be added to the work plan now.
02:59:48.000 --> 02:59:58.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and returning with their requests
for more meetings in mid-year after budget review, or during budget
review. Is that correct? Okay.
03:00:00.000 --> 03:00:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, so moved by Vice Mayor Maurer
and seconded by Council Member Carter to approve the 26-27 work plans as
amended, updating the websites for PC and DRB to be done now, adding the
95473 Charles Short's mural, and then returning to mid-year budget review
the request for the additional meetings.
03:00:18.000 --> 03:00:27.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: 9, 5, 4, 7, 2. Oh, sorry. 9, 5, 4,
7. What did you say? 3. Oh, the post office.
03:00:27.000 --> 03:00:29.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Councilmember Carter?
03:00:29.000 --> 03:00:30.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yes.
03:00:30.000 --> 03:00:39.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Councilmember Hinton? Aye.
Councilmember Zollman? Yes. Vice Mayor Maurer? Yes. Mayor McLewis? Yes.
Motion passes unanimously.
03:00:39.000 --> 03:00:50.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And now, we are going to take a bio
break, because we have the next item, and it's gonna be long, and it
would not be good to break in the middle. So, um, let's see, what time is
it? It's…
03:00:50.000 --> 03:00:54.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So we'll be back around. Yeah.
03:00:54.000 --> 03:00:58.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We have like eight minutes, so
8:15.
03:01:04.000 --> 03:01:06.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you.
03:01:08.000 --> 03:01:10.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay.
03:01:12.000 --> 03:01:17.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Oh, yeah, that's right. So.
03:01:17.000 --> 03:01:20.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So I'm happy to see what's going
on.
03:01:20.000 --> 03:01:22.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, he's gone.

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03:01:23.000 --> 03:01:24.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We haven't.
03:01:26.000 --> 03:01:29.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Are you good? Are you good? Okay.
03:01:59.000 --> 03:02:00.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you.
03:02:11.000 --> 03:02:14.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: No, no.
03:02:23.000 --> 03:02:24.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I don't think that one.
03:02:24.000 --> 03:02:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: for left of the afternoon.
03:02:35.000 --> 03:02:45.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: 05.14.25.
03:02:50.000 --> 03:02:52.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I hope they do, if you want.
03:02:58.000 --> 03:03:05.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: 05.14.25 Yeah, well, I hang on to
it.
03:03:53.000 --> 03:04:02.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And I'm like, a greater problem.
03:04:02.000 --> 03:04:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: But to actually .
03:04:18.000 --> 03:04:33.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Oh, fun! Oh my god!
03:04:33.000 --> 03:04:41.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: 05.14.25 That's awesome. Date night
with my sweetie, Lily.
03:04:41.000 --> 03:05:01.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Sorry I missed getting together. I
had another meeting. I can't even tell you what one it was, but we will
have that.
03:05:01.000 --> 03:05:05.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We are in for a little while.
03:05:05.000 --> 03:05:22.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and.
03:05:33.000 --> 03:05:53.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, I know. I hear you. There's a
lot going on. I'm trying to keep it. It's like so much.
03:06:15.000 --> 03:06:24.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: What about me? Oh, no. But also
that I'm officially the slowest person.
03:06:24.000 --> 03:06:33.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I used to be able to, like, not
run.
03:06:33.000 --> 03:06:39.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Different.
03:06:39.000 --> 03:06:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Well, thank you for doing that.
That's amazing. So are they…
03:06:44.000 --> 03:06:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We're playing in Italy now. I'm
always going to keep trying.
03:06:58.000 --> 03:07:06.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It's like $400K, but we need $2.5.
03:07:10.000 --> 03:07:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, they all watch that. Oh,
yeah, yes, I watch that all the time. Sometimes I feel just like that.
Yeah, I feel like this.
03:07:26.000 --> 03:07:34.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm sure your young players might
watch it too, but it's good.
03:07:42.000 --> 03:07:51.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: You know what's weird is it kind of
tracks me too.
03:07:51.000 --> 03:07:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Just wait. Does he get worse than
like your dad? It's almost the same time.
03:08:09.000 --> 03:08:16.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I was going to help you.
03:08:16.000 --> 03:08:22.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: You said grounding, dude.
03:08:22.000 --> 03:08:31.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And now my now my daughter.
03:08:31.000 --> 03:08:47.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: one of the ball. One of the men's
men's coach. Oh, yeah, yeah, he's got this way. Yes, he started doing
that.
03:08:47.000 --> 03:09:02.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I was like, Nope, not not okay.
03:09:02.000 --> 03:09:12.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It's been 10 years. I know it has
been.
03:09:12.000 --> 03:09:17.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: For a while. Let me know. Okay.
03:09:22.000 --> 03:09:25.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I have one thing that I'm here to
do.
03:09:25.000 --> 03:09:27.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: But you don't actually need to give
them anything.
03:09:37.000 --> 03:09:40.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm the person who comes out of
there.
03:09:40.000 --> 03:09:50.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: all right.
03:09:55.000 --> 03:09:56.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you.
03:10:08.000 --> 03:10:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: All right. Are we ready to —.
03:10:14.000 --> 03:10:19.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm sorry, did you say it was okay
back? Yeah, perfect. Mary, are you good?
03:10:19.000 --> 03:10:38.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay. All right, welcome back,
everyone. We are moving on the, um, on, on the agenda. We are on number
11, discussion and considerations of options for rezone, text amendment
for outdoor commercial barbecues, and our city attorney is going to do a
presentation. Good evening. Thank you, Mayor. Um…
03:10:38.000 --> 03:10:43.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: As the council is aware, this item
originates from.
03:10:43.000 --> 03:10:55.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: concerns regarding A&M Barbecue and
complaints the city received. The city has a complaint-based code
enforcement process and received complaints regarding.

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03:10:55.000 --> 03:11:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the operation of A&M Barbecue. It's
located at 495 South Main Street, and that property is in the CO zoning
district, and within that zoning district, outdoor commercial barbecues
are.
03:11:11.000 --> 03:11:12.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: prohibited.
03:11:12.000 --> 03:11:20.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: They're allowed with a use permit
in some of the city's other commercial zoning districts.
03:11:20.000 --> 03:11:31.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, um, there's been a significant
public comment before the Council on a couple occasions regarding this,
and on July 7th, uh, Councilmembers Hinton and Carter brought forth.
03:11:31.000 --> 03:11:33.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: an item.
03:11:33.000 --> 03:11:36.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: requesting that.
03:11:36.000 --> 03:11:43.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the Council provide direction to
staff to prepare a report on potential zoning options to.
03:11:43.000 --> 03:11:45.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um…
03:11:45.000 --> 03:11:52.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: facilitate the continued operation
of this business at this particular location.
03:11:52.000 --> 03:12:03.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And at that time, that was approved
by the council, and, you know, with the understanding that no enforcement
would occur during that interim period until staff came back.
03:12:03.000 --> 03:12:10.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: As long as communication continued
with the business in the city and they stayed in contact.
03:12:10.000 --> 03:12:17.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, and Mary can provide you more
information on that, but that… that did occur. So before you tonight
are…
03:12:17.000 --> 03:12:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um.
03:12:18.000 --> 03:12:24.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you know, two zoning options, uh,
to consider if the Council wants to.
03:12:24.000 --> 03:12:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um…
03:12:26.000 --> 03:12:39.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: commence a rezoning. So the first
option is to rezone the single parcel the business is located on, or, you
know, any other, you know, specific parcels that.
03:12:39.000 --> 03:12:43.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Council directs within the CO
zoning district.
03:12:43.000 --> 03:12:48.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Do site-specific zoning changes to
allow commercial outdoor.
03:12:48.000 --> 03:13:05.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: barbecues with a conditional use
permit. The other option would be to change the zoning for the entire CO
zoning district to allow district-wide outdoor commercial barbecues with
a conditional use permit.
03:13:06.000 --> 03:13:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Normally, a conditional use permit
goes to the Planning Commission for approval.
03:13:11.000 --> 03:13:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and and they are the decision maker
with an appeal possible to the City Council here. If an application was
processed concurrently, where the zoning text change is processed
concurrently with the.
03:13:26.000 --> 03:13:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: use permit application, those would
both come to the City Council for decision. It would go first to the
Planning Commission for a recommendation, and then to the City Council
for decision, because the City Council is the decision maker on zoning
text amendments, and so under our code, when.
03:13:44.000 --> 03:13:53.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: When there are multiple
entitlements, if one of them involves the city council, then the city
council is the decision maker for all of the approvals.
03:13:54.000 --> 03:13:55.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Umm.
03:13:55.000 --> 03:14:12.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Both of them require, you know,
involve approximately the same process, approximately the same costs.

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Generally, you know, unless it's in the city-sponsored or initiated
change, we require a deposit and then staff bills.
03:14:12.000 --> 03:14:14.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It's time against the deposit for
that.
03:14:15.000 --> 03:14:20.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We estimate either process to take
about 120 to 150 days.
03:14:20.000 --> 03:14:25.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, and, you know, the bulk of that
is just the public process, right? We have to…
03:14:25.000 --> 03:14:27.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: submit.
03:14:27.000 --> 03:14:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Planning Commission. Notice for the
Planning Commission has to be published 20 minutes… 20 days before the
Public Planning Commission hearing. There then needs to be 10 days
between… at least between the Planning Commission hearing and the first
City Council meeting. Because an ordinance is involved, there needs to be
a second City Council meeting.
03:14:44.000 --> 03:14:55.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And then ordinances under state law
don't go into effect for 30 days. So it's really actually only about, you
know, 45 days of the staff work.
03:14:55.000 --> 03:14:59.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Most of it is just the noticing and
process.
03:14:59.000 --> 03:15:00.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, involved.
03:15:01.000 --> 03:15:15.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And each one of those would involve
CEQA review. We anticipate, you know, we would be able to do probably a
mitigated negative declaration, but of course, we'd have to go through
that process to confirm.
03:15:15.000 --> 03:15:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: As part of the proposals.
03:15:18.000 --> 03:15:28.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The the city currently does have,
you know, some performance standards in the zoning code for.
03:15:29.000 --> 03:15:31.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Outdoor commercial barbecues.

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03:15:32.000 --> 03:15:41.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: For either option, the Council
could direct that staff review Lowe's and add additional performance,
evaluate, you know.
03:15:41.000 --> 03:15:56.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: metrics for those, and if the
council, you know, adopted those, those would apply to any new commercial
barbecues. Any legally operating commercial barbecue that might be in the
city would be grandfathered in, but only if there are.
03:15:56.000 --> 03:15:59.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: a legally operating business.
03:15:59.000 --> 03:16:01.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, um…
03:16:01.000 --> 03:16:13.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: With that, I would pause to take
any questions. One thing I would note is, you know, there's obviously,
you know, a third option, which is for the Council to.
03:16:13.000 --> 03:16:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: uh, direct staff not to proceed
with either option. Um…
03:16:18.000 --> 03:16:30.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: staff has, um, ceased enforcement
for the last few months based on the Council's direction, and while this
process was ongoing, if the Council decided not to move forward with any.
03:16:30.000 --> 03:16:34.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: zoning change enforcement would
resume.
03:16:34.000 --> 03:16:40.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Of course, the council could
provide direction separate from any of these.
03:16:40.000 --> 03:16:46.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, so with that, I'll stop and
happy to take any questions. Okay, thank you. Councilor Mazzola.
03:16:46.000 --> 03:17:03.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, thanks, Alex, for the report,
and thank you to Staff for doing the question and answer just for members
of the public. There were a lot of questions that we all had
independently, and Mary did, I'm sure, all the work in trying to get the
answers to our questions, and then send it all back out to us.
03:17:04.000 --> 03:17:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: What I want to focus in on is the
data. So question number 26 was, does the city have air quality data?

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03:17:11.000 --> 03:17:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: there seems to be a big dispute
that seems to be happening amongst the residents and the business, as far
as the amount of harm that's happening by way of bad air. And there seems
to be…
03:17:26.000 --> 03:17:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: something in question number 26
about the BAAQMD, the Bay Area Quality District, and how they measure
things. Then we have Goldrich's measuring something. Then we have a
resident who used their Purple Air sensor.
03:17:44.000 --> 03:17:59.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and actually found that there was
much more particulate matter than the other sources of data. So which one
are we supposed to use in order to resolve this if we're resolving it on
a public health type perspective.
03:17:59.000 --> 03:18:05.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Which — what advice do you —
what advice do you have?
03:18:05.000 --> 03:18:09.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, so you can, um…
03:18:09.000 --> 03:18:24.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: use whichever ones you want. What I
would say is, you know, because you're making your determination about
whether to move forward tonight, and you can consider whatever
information you think is relevant as to whether or not to do that.
03:18:25.000 --> 03:18:40.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: If the Council decides to move
forward with an amendment, one thing you could specify with changes to
the existing performance standards are these are, you know, the exact
metrics you need to meet under.
03:18:40.000 --> 03:18:41.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: You know.
03:18:41.000 --> 03:18:46.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Maybe it's the Bay Area Air Quality
Management District standards.
03:18:46.000 --> 03:19:00.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Uh, or, you know, whatever
standard… it could be City of Sebastopol's own unique standards, and
you could establish those and put those into performance standards if
these are what you need to meet as part of any CUP that's issued.
03:19:00.000 --> 03:19:05.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: regardless of what any other agency
might say.

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03:19:05.000 --> 03:19:10.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thanks. Can I ask, how would we
even know what metrics to set? I mean.
03:19:11.000 --> 03:19:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So you could look to what other
agencies do. You could also take input from the public. You don't need to
make that decision tonight. If you move forward, it could be direction.
03:19:26.000 --> 03:19:31.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: To staff to come up with that
standard as part of an ordinance, and staff can work to try to.
03:19:31.000 --> 03:19:39.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: come up with something, and then
when that comes back as part of the ordinance to the Council, you can
decide whether or not.
03:19:39.000 --> 03:19:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you find that standard to be
acceptable or not. Okay.
03:19:45.000 --> 03:19:47.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Oh, go ahead, Vice Mayor.
03:19:47.000 --> 03:20:02.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, so the BAAQMD said that, um,
between 5 and 7, it reached moderate levels at the closest monitor. Um,
where is the location for that monitor? Do you know?
03:20:02.000 --> 03:20:05.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It's on Morris Street, isn't it?
03:20:05.000 --> 03:20:09.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: On Morris Street. That's my
understanding, based on what BA and QMD said.
03:20:10.000 --> 03:20:13.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And that's a couple hundred feet
away.
03:20:13.000 --> 03:20:19.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: On Moore Street? More than that.
Yeah, it's more than that. Seems like it's a lot more than that.
03:20:19.000 --> 03:20:28.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Correct me if I'm wrong, we
inquired about if there was the ability to put a different sensor in the
city, and the answer was no, right?
03:20:29.000 --> 03:20:46.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That is correct. That is what Bay
area quality said, that they would not install a monitor there. Okay,
yeah, cause I had that question. Go ahead. We're in a ping pong around a

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lot, cause we have a lot of questions. So, Councilmember Zolman, you want
to go on. Yeah. And then, just so, people following along question number
4, because.
03:20:46.000 --> 03:21:02.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I it sounds like many of us have
met with neighbors, and for me the question is reasonable enjoyment of
their property at the time that they bought it. Question number 4 is, how
was this business originally approved? And it states that it seems.
03:21:02.000 --> 03:21:05.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: that it was originally.
03:21:05.000 --> 03:21:12.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: not what it is now, Alex. Correct
me if I'm wrong. It was basically.
03:21:12.000 --> 03:21:24.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: a small deli that had a very small,
single, small cooker, and then somehow it's evolved. But then my
interpretation of this is that it sort of evolved.
03:21:25.000 --> 03:21:42.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: But no one really was monitoring
it, because, as you started out your presentation, we are a reporting
agency like we don't have code enforcement running around checking under
tables. We wait for complaints to arise. So is that a fair assessment of
what's typed in number 4.
03:21:42.000 --> 03:21:51.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: About how this all started? Yes,
that's correct. There's never any zoning permits issued for this.
03:21:52.000 --> 03:21:53.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: This particular…
03:21:53.000 --> 03:22:10.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: This iteration of the business.
This iteration, but there was one when it was really small, and it was
kind of a quasi-deli. Well, and that iteration of the business didn't
require a use permit or anything like that, because it didn't qualify as
a commercial outdoor.
03:22:10.000 --> 03:22:13.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Oh, okay. Business. Okay, thanks.
03:22:13.000 --> 03:22:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: so just to clarify, how long has it
been functioning the way, you know, from the time, what it was approved
for, versus where, how that's functioning now? I'm trying to read through
these again here, the dates.
03:22:28.000 --> 03:22:34.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: My understanding is the prior
business closed in around February 2025.
03:22:34.000 --> 03:22:36.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And, um…
03:22:36.000 --> 03:22:47.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I have another question. If go
ahead. Yeah. So my understanding is that there were no complaints about
the smoke until the 2 large industrial smokers were installed.
03:22:47.000 --> 03:22:52.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So the smaller smoker didn't really
attract complaints. Is that correct?
03:22:53.000 --> 03:22:56.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That's my understanding, yes.
03:22:56.000 --> 03:22:58.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay.
03:22:58.000 --> 03:23:17.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Another question that I have is, in
the recommendations, it said it would take 120 to 150 days to process,
and the, um, and, you know, the question came about was, and that we've
seen comments about, was that, um, could the, you know, if, should that
decision be made.
03:23:17.000 --> 03:23:29.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: it's up to the Council whether or
not the smokers could continue to be in use during that 120, 150 days.
That's a policy decision. You could certainly direct staff to.
03:23:30.000 --> 03:23:45.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: recommence enforcement. You know,
enforcement decisions are made at the the staff level, you know, based on
availability of resources to do inspections and those types of things.
But yes, you could direct.
03:23:45.000 --> 03:23:49.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Commencement to begin again.
03:23:49.000 --> 03:23:52.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Go ahead, and I have questions too.
Go ahead.
03:23:52.000 --> 03:24:05.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, um, is one option to allow
the restaurant to continue in that location with one small smoker, as
long as they move the other industrial-sized smokers off the property?
03:24:06.000 --> 03:24:22.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Certainly. I mean, if they go back
to the one small smoker, then they don't need a conditional use permit

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that's an allowed business. So no zoning change would be needed? Correct.
No zoning.
03:24:22.000 --> 03:24:24.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay.
03:24:24.000 --> 03:24:35.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And can you reiterate again, if it
had remained the way it was, then you just said there were no changes
would be needed, but just simply because of the growth.
03:24:35.000 --> 03:24:40.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: In the business. Yes. And the
increase in smoking. In the other business.
03:24:40.000 --> 03:24:51.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, yes. The addition, going from
the one small smoker that was part of an operation of a larger deli.
03:24:51.000 --> 03:24:58.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: to a barbecue restaurant that
solely serves barbecue and has the two large smoker.
03:24:58.000 --> 03:25:01.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: changed how it's classified under
the code.
03:25:02.000 --> 03:25:12.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you. Go ahead. So, in reading
the question and answer, and the question that I had sent in is, we could
go ahead and condition.
03:25:12.000 --> 03:25:16.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: its continued business.
03:25:17.000 --> 03:25:34.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: to just allow the small smoker, and
if they wanted to continue doing the business that would require the big
smoking thing, we could require that to be done off site and have them
cater the food back into the premise. That is one thing we can condition.
If we.
03:25:34.000 --> 03:25:38.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: If we move in that direction. So.
03:25:38.000 --> 03:25:52.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the… you know, there's not a
permit before you today, so what I would suggest is that if the Council
is interested in that sort of action, that you decide if you want to move
forward with a, um…
03:25:52.000 --> 03:25:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: permit change, you could say we
want, you know, let's move forward with option A, but.

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03:25:57.000 --> 03:26:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: until option a is finalized and
permits are issued, you know, commence enforcement, and you know. I don't
understand, because if they're keeping what was you just said there
wouldn't need to be. There wouldn't. But you you aren't. There's no
permit before you. The condition do list. Do that. So you want to know
what what our options are. Is that my misunderstanding what you're.
03:26:18.000 --> 03:26:33.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, I think that does incorporate
it. So the fact that it's like if we moved in a direction where we don't
want to shut down the business, but in order for them to continue to
operate under their current business license, if they wanted to smoke to
the extent they've been smoking the meat.
03:26:33.000 --> 03:26:35.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We'd condition it to be off
premise.
03:26:35.000 --> 03:26:46.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That's something we could do. So,
there's nothing before you tonight to condition. Right. Right. And so,
the direction would be you, you know.
03:26:46.000 --> 03:26:58.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: do option A, do option B, and then
just direction to staff to commence enforcement. And it's to their
discretion if they want to… And then staff will determine if a
violation… if operations change so that there's no…
03:26:58.000 --> 03:27:12.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: violation, then no enforcement
would occur. So you're saying, like, if that was the case, I mean, we
can't tell them that they need to take their smokers and do it somewhere
else, but we just say, you know, it has to remain the way it is, and then
however they decide to proceed.
03:27:12.000 --> 03:27:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Right. I mean, yes, the direction
is just to staff to commence enforcement of the code. And then staff will
determine if there are violations based on how the business continues to
operate.
03:27:26.000 --> 03:27:28.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Got it. Okay.
03:27:29.000 --> 03:27:33.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Just to clarify, is it…
03:27:33.000 --> 03:27:36.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: legal for them to have the small
smoker there.

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03:27:37.000 --> 03:27:55.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yes, that's our determination that
it does not qualify as an outdoor commercial business. Okay, thank you.
When there's a small smoker there. And you have the dimensions and all of
that already, and no… I do not have the dimensions and… I just wanna
make sure we're clear on that if we actually…
03:27:55.000 --> 03:27:58.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, so it… it…
03:27:58.000 --> 03:28:10.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you know, we define… the
definition is for a facility that cooks, so our determination is sort of
looking at the whole of the business. Um…
03:28:10.000 --> 03:28:27.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: You know, in the past, you know, as
you may know, there are other businesses in Sebastopol that have small
smokers as part of a larger operation, and our determination has been
those are not facilities. You know, I can't guarantee that in every
situation you'd look at a…
03:28:27.000 --> 03:28:37.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Small Smoker and how it operates as
part of the business it's in, and make that same determination about
whether or not it's, um…
03:28:37.000 --> 03:28:43.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: qualifies as a outdoor, you know,
facility, which is the word used in the…
03:28:43.000 --> 03:28:49.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the code, but yes, in general, that
would be, you know, my assumption that a small smoker would be…
03:28:49.000 --> 03:28:58.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: permissible in most scenarios. I
see. Okay, because I know some of you have other questions.
03:28:58.000 --> 03:29:12.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I had a question. I've heard rumors
about all different things about what the actual owners are doing with
the business and all that, and I just wondered if they wanted to answer
any questions for us as far as…
03:29:12.000 --> 03:29:16.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: because I know I just I've heard a
variety of things. I don't know if they're here or not.
03:29:16.000 --> 03:29:17.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Oh.
03:29:18.000 --> 03:29:19.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, I see.

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03:29:19.000 --> 03:29:22.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: You need to come up to the mic if
you don't mind.
03:29:31.000 --> 03:29:49.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Hi, thank you. Hello, can you hear
me? Yeah, I was just wondering, I've heard, you know, you hear a lot of
things in the community, and that you all had another site, another
place. I just wondered if there were… if there's anything that, just
since you're here, I'd rather hear it from… Sure. …source versus
rumors, so I just wondered if you had any…
03:29:50.000 --> 03:29:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, I mean, I have lots of
things, and I also have some follow-up questions with some of the things
that came up, too, but…
03:29:57.000 --> 03:30:06.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Uh, what I can share is we've
looked at so many properties in the last 3-4 months, including in
Sebastopol, including all over Sonoma County.
03:30:06.000 --> 03:30:16.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: These things take time. It's hard
to find a place where we can just move in in a month, right? That would
be ideal. And we really tried, really tried to find a place where let's
just go there.
03:30:16.000 --> 03:30:27.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We are currently, I would say,
about 95% done with negotiating with the property. Can't share where,
who, or the landlord, because that's confidential. Um…
03:30:27.000 --> 03:30:32.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: But we basically agreed on the LOI,
on the lease terms.
03:30:32.000 --> 03:30:41.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It's just this final piece is just
signing that lease. We've also spoken with Armando at El Cornell.
03:30:41.000 --> 03:30:56.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: He runs Mexican street, maybe
Mexican restaurant about 5 blocks down, and he had a 1 acre property that
his restaurant has where he keeps his food trucks, and there's a section
where we think maybe we could fit a smoker there.
03:30:56.000 --> 03:31:02.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Now, that's also a CO zone, but
it's much further away from residential.
03:31:02.000 --> 03:31:14.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, so that's something we've
discussed with him. If he's interested in helping us, he's more than
happy to help us, um, to basically bring our big smoker over there. My
question is.
03:31:14.000 --> 03:31:29.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: what defines small smoker? What
defines big smoker, right? This is all very, kind of, gray area. And to
be honest, I've been asking from the City Building Department, the first
email I wrote was May 21st, what am I in violation of?
03:31:29.000 --> 03:31:32.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: What do we need to do to correct
it?
03:31:32.000 --> 03:31:34.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I got that information yesterday.
03:31:34.000 --> 03:31:38.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I emailed five, six, seven times.
03:31:38.000 --> 03:31:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So I don't know what decisions we
need to make or how to move forward if I don't know from the city.
03:31:44.000 --> 03:31:48.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: what to do. Okay. Right? So
that's…
03:31:48.000 --> 03:32:04.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So the question, what you're saying
is is that you are nearly to a point where you you have a lease, and you
might be moving. But yet you're exploring other options. I just wanted to
understand, because I've heard so much like, I said, because we're gonna
have public comment. And you can.
03:32:04.000 --> 03:32:07.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: into this new location in January.
That was the goal.
03:32:07.000 --> 03:32:19.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: things come up, there's many people
involved, right, you have negotiations, that's getting pushed back a
little bit. So what we're trying to do is, while we're negotiating a new
permanent home, what can we do temporarily?
03:32:19.000 --> 03:32:39.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, we've already removed one of
the large smokers that we had. We just purchased a new smaller smoker. I
don't know if you have all seen it, but it is smaller. But that's my
question, then, too, is what defines small and big. What's the I think we
probably have. I mean, we we understand that you define it by. Let's ask
our city attorney.

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03:32:39.000 --> 03:32:48.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Alex? So we don't have a definition
of small versus big. We have a — it says like an outdoor.
03:32:48.000 --> 03:32:49.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Umm.
03:32:49.000 --> 03:32:51.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Let me pull up the definition.
03:32:52.000 --> 03:32:53.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Umm.
03:32:56.000 --> 03:33:00.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, that's not what I care about.
03:33:01.000 --> 03:33:08.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And to add to that, too, what
defines commercial industrial when it comes to barbecues. Okay.
03:33:08.000 --> 03:33:23.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Does anyone else have any
questions? Otherwise, we can go ahead and — I'd just like to ask some
questions about the new smoker and the old smoker or something like that.
Did you say the bigger one is the cold smoker? And it does like — Yeah.
03:33:23.000 --> 03:33:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Two smokers for two different
purposes, right?
03:33:26.000 --> 03:33:35.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The smaller smoker, that's the one
we use for our service cook, which is Wednesday through Sunday. That's
typically used from 3.30 in the morning until 11 in the morning.
03:33:35.000 --> 03:33:45.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That is gonna run at a higher
temperature, where you get that really clean blue smoke, which is almost
invisible, and it's considered clean smoke.
03:33:45.000 --> 03:34:02.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The big smoker, which obviously
understandably our neighbors are concerned about, is what we cook all of
our briskets on, our beef products. That's Mondays and Tuesdays. Those
require a much longer cook. There is a cold smoking process that starts
out with, so you are going to see smoke that's.
03:34:02.000 --> 03:34:09.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: thicker on those cook dates. Our
idea is to take that smoker off-site, hopefully all Cornell.
03:34:09.000 --> 03:34:20.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Right? So that happened elsewhere.
We would still keep the new smoker we got on-site, which had the clean
cooking process, way less smoke, clean smoke. Okay.
03:34:20.000 --> 03:34:22.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Any other? Go ahead.
03:34:23.000 --> 03:34:38.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: When you came before us at a
previous meeting, you mentioned that you had your large smoker offsite,
and you had employees driving to retrieve the beef.
03:34:38.000 --> 03:34:42.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And that was a hardship on the
business.
03:34:43.000 --> 03:34:50.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And… but yet, you were doing it,
and I'm curious, A, how many miles away it was…
03:34:50.000 --> 03:35:01.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, I have another question I can't
think of right at the moment, but if you can answer that, I'll probably
remember the other one. As far as distance, would you know 3 miles?
03:35:01.000 --> 03:35:09.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: 3 miles. And honestly, our team, we
were willing to do whatever it took to make it work. The issue was Sonoma
County Health Department.
03:35:09.000 --> 03:35:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: found out, and they're like, well,
you can't transport meat back and forth. Right? That's why we stopped.
Because now we don't want to get in trouble with Health Department. And
in that moment, in that scenario we had to pivot really quickly. In this
scenario, if we go to El Cornell, we do a conditional use permit.
03:35:26.000 --> 03:35:41.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We make Sonoma County aware of the
process. It's way closer. It's 5 blocks away. They also have a kitchen
downstairs where we can store the meat that we're not transporting meat
at the wrong temperature. So now we can cook the meat at El Cornell, cool
it down there once it's cooled down.
03:35:41.000 --> 03:35:46.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Bring it to the restaurant, and
then we meet the food safety requirements to do that.
03:35:46.000 --> 03:35:50.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, so my follow-up question is.
03:35:50.000 --> 03:35:55.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The start of, you said you're 95%.

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03:35:56.000 --> 03:36:00.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I believe, in an agreement with
someone.
03:36:00.000 --> 03:36:06.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: that you couldn't mention, but then
you've gone on and talked about El Cornell. Mm-hmm.
03:36:06.000 --> 03:36:21.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So are you 95% in an agreement with
somebody completely separate? Because we have all heard a lot of rumors.
I've heard, I've heard you're moving out of town. I've heard, I've heard
a lot of stuff. And then now you're talking about El Cornell.
03:36:21.000 --> 03:36:37.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That will be a temporary solution
while we figure out a permanent solution. Okay, so you're moving out of
Sebastopol probably no matter what, but you're proposing. That's not a no
matter what. Okay, but you're proposing a temporary solution possibly.
03:36:37.000 --> 03:36:41.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Avelle Cornell. Yes.
03:36:41.000 --> 03:36:42.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, thank you.
03:36:43.000 --> 03:36:48.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I wanted to ask, what if El Cornell
doesn't really work out?
03:36:48.000 --> 03:36:55.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And that'll still take, like, a
permitting process and everything, so there'll be…
03:36:55.000 --> 03:37:08.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: it's not zoned right, and so
that… that's… that in itself is still an issue, right? Sure. Well, if
El Cornell doesn't work out, I guess my question then would be, what
would cause it to not work out? Like, what are…
03:37:08.000 --> 03:37:13.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Well, I'm just saying, like, the
time to make…
03:37:13.000 --> 03:37:31.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: even even this, even if we rezoned
yours, would take like 3 3 months, right? So it would take 3 months. And
then we're getting close to the time where you might be able to find a
different place. And then it costs about. I don't know about $3,000 for
the use.
03:37:31.000 --> 03:37:34.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Conditional use permit? 5,000?
5,000.

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03:37:34.000 --> 03:37:45.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, if that's acceptable to you,
and El Cornell, but we have no guarantees of that, specifically, and if
it doesn't work out, then what?
03:37:45.000 --> 03:37:59.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: then we'll have to come up with
another solution, right? Or then we don't have a solution, but those are
our two options right now. So you're 95% somewhere, but yet maybe a…
okay. Um, I have a question just about the, um…
03:37:59.000 --> 03:38:03.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So I lived in Texas for a decade,
so very familiar with barbecue.
03:38:03.000 --> 03:38:06.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: A lot of them have the…
03:38:06.000 --> 03:38:25.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the words… scrubbers, filters…
The filters on it, you go to Austin, you see it all over the place,
they're all filtered, and I've talked to some other council members, even
locally, in the North Bay, who know… people have… what happened,
like, I heard that you had done that, again, rumors and all different
things, so, like, what happened with that?
03:38:25.000 --> 03:38:40.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Is there a reason why you can't
have them? What are the logistics? Okay, so we've met with, I would say,
over 50 different people, whether it's engineers, whether it's
contractors, whether it's other barbecue restaurants. We spoke to other
barbecue restaurants about their solution.
03:38:40.000 --> 03:38:53.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Problem is, I don't know what the
regulation and standard is. We're not going to spend $50,000 to build a
nice filtration system, and then potentially learn that that's not the
correct one, right?
03:38:53.000 --> 03:39:02.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And that's why I bring up the fact
that I've been asking, think May 21st, what am I violating? What do I
need to do to make this right? And I got that information yesterday.
03:39:02.000 --> 03:39:13.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Why does that take 6 months? If I
have that information, then I can strategize, okay, here's what we're
gonna do, but I'm not willing to commit money into something that doesn't
guarantee us.
03:39:13.000 --> 03:39:29.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: being able to continue business.
Okay, alright. Does anyone else have any other questions otherwise? Oh,

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for go ahead. Well, yeah. So now it seems like the burden is shifting
back on staff the fact that they were negligent and not providing a
proper response back. So.
03:39:29.000 --> 03:39:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So what's that? So just go back to
the definition. The definition of outdoor barbecue commercial means any
outdoor facility for cooking food directly over hot coals, gas, or other
meats, smoking food, or other similar methods, and where the food is
intended to be sold or distributed for commercial purposes.
03:39:44.000 --> 03:39:46.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So.
03:39:46.000 --> 03:39:52.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: First, that definition does not
change at all based on whether there's a filtration system or not.
03:39:52.000 --> 03:39:54.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Right, that might be part of a…
03:39:54.000 --> 03:40:06.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: You know, use permit to require
that, but whether or not something is an outdoor barbecue, commercial
barbecue, doesn't change that under that definition, whether you have a
filtration system or not.
03:40:06.000 --> 03:40:17.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So that's why there's no answer to
you can become legal if you have a filtration system. There might be
building code things about… of how that needs to be installed, but not
under the zoning code.
03:40:18.000 --> 03:40:31.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: In there, the definition is any
outdoor facility for cooking. How the city has historically interpreted
that is that if you are a… have a small…
03:40:31.000 --> 03:40:47.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Essentially, you're an outdoor
facility for cooking, if that's your sole way of preparing food. If you
have a small barbecue that is part of another operation where you are
preparing foods in other ways on site, like some of the other.
03:40:47.000 --> 03:41:02.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: restaurants in Sebastopol that have
barbecues. There is no… we don't consider you an outdoor facility for
cooking food. You happen to have that as an accessory use to your
business, but you're not an outdoor facility for cooking food.
03:41:02.000 --> 03:41:19.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So that's why, you know, I spoke
earlier about, well, yes, it needs to be small, but it's looked sort of
holistically at the whole business. That's how we've done it historically

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in the city. Certainly, the council, you're providing direction on the
zoning change, could provide direction.
03:41:19.000 --> 03:41:25.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: You know, to include into this
barbecue, you know, the definition.
03:41:25.000 --> 03:41:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you know.
03:41:26.000 --> 03:41:41.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: A small barbecue doesn't qualify as
a outdoor barbecue commercial. And small means, you know, X, Y, and Z.
And either direct staff with something specific or direct staff to come
up with that definition in the order.
03:41:42.000 --> 03:41:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Can I ask a question about that?
03:41:44.000 --> 03:41:54.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, so give me one second. So
Vice Mayor, you had a question before, did you still?
03:41:54.000 --> 03:42:01.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I guess I don't understand the
viability of moving to Cornell.
03:42:01.000 --> 03:42:10.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: If it's gonna take four to five
months to get the conditional use permit and you're nearly ready to move
forward.
03:42:10.000 --> 03:42:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: sign a lease, you're 95%, you know,
ready to sign a lease, so I'm a little confused on that point.
03:42:18.000 --> 03:42:31.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Uh, to answer that, it's because we
don't know how long it's going to take until we can actually start
operating there. Just because I sign a lease next month doesn't mean
we're moving in next month. There's a build-out process, there's a
permitting process, right?
03:42:31.000 --> 03:42:36.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: If people involved, though, if they
determine, okay, we'll be ready to go in May.
03:42:36.000 --> 03:42:38.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Did we shut down for five months?
03:42:39.000 --> 03:42:42.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Right? But what we're trying to do
is…

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03:42:42.000 --> 03:42:52.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Take time to find a permanent
solution. What can we do in the meantime, while that's sorted out at the
end of the day. I want to do that more than anything for the
neighborhood. Seriously like that's.
03:42:52.000 --> 03:42:58.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Moving the smoker off the premise
is what has to happen, but I can't do that.
03:42:58.000 --> 03:43:01.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Unless there's a clear
understanding of.
03:43:01.000 --> 03:43:05.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: what the regulation around that is
and what the expectations are.
03:43:05.000 --> 03:43:08.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And I've been trying for six months
to get that information.
03:43:08.000 --> 03:43:12.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I see. Okay, other questions.
03:43:13.000 --> 03:43:15.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: No? Okay.
03:43:16.000 --> 03:43:30.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm suddenly curious about what the
information is that you received the other day, like specifically. So on
May 21st, I emailed the city building department because we met with them
Right. We got a cease and desist letter.
03:43:31.000 --> 03:43:34.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Prior to the cease and desist
letter.
03:43:34.000 --> 03:43:50.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Again, I had just joined the
company. I don't know what information was shared before then, but I
reached out to the building department. Cool. Thank you for the letter.
Appreciate that you're letting us know. Can I please get all the
documents?
03:43:50.000 --> 03:43:56.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: that show what we're in violation
of so we can understand what the cease and desist letter is for.
03:43:56.000 --> 03:43:58.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Now the men.
03:43:58.000 --> 03:44:08.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Whether it's zoning, whether
it's… is it the smoker itself? Is it smoke? Is it… we don't know,
because there was no information. We weren't told what we were violating.
03:44:10.000 --> 03:44:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Go ahead.
03:44:14.000 --> 03:44:24.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, I know we're not to comment
yet, but we have heard this. You might be new with the company, but
there's other people in the room that work for your company that were
here at a previous hearing.
03:44:24.000 --> 03:44:32.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, and I guess it's a little
chicken and egg, because at the end of the day, we are the final decision
makers to give a zoning.
03:44:32.000 --> 03:44:34.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Make a zoning change.
03:44:35.000 --> 03:44:37.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: However…
03:44:38.000 --> 03:44:43.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I think you also, as a company,
have responsibility. Of course.
03:44:43.000 --> 03:44:55.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, not just waiting for a letter
from the city, because we clearly stated what the rules were in our last
hearing when this was before this body. Mm-hmm.
03:44:55.000 --> 03:45:06.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And maybe you weren't here
personally, but it's all recorded for the public. So I just… I think
now's the time to say that, because maybe everybody…
03:45:06.000 --> 03:45:14.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: is missing that point. Sure you're
far us by for the second or 3rd time over a number of months.
03:45:14.000 --> 03:45:17.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Where I heard…
03:45:18.000 --> 03:45:31.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you'd help come up with a solution
we could all live with. So I just, I just want to say that because you're
standing on public, even though we're still in questions, I, I just want
to be fully transparent about.
03:45:31.000 --> 03:45:47.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you're saying one side, but I view
it a bit. I've I've been here for all these meetings. So I just want to

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say that. Yeah, I appreciate that. And I want to keep this in questions,
and we will have public comment where you can answer. So I mean, give
your comments. But go ahead for questions.
03:45:47.000 --> 03:45:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm just wondering about
enforcement. And if there's a progressive level of enforcement like, say,
like the the larger trailer moves.
03:45:58.000 --> 03:46:01.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Assume ASAP or whatever.
03:46:02.000 --> 03:46:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And then the second one that's a
little bit smaller, you know, they're able to, you know, take, you know,
some kind of like reasonable progress, like two weeks or something before
enforcement action starts or how, is there some way that we can.
03:46:19.000 --> 03:46:24.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you know, not cause like immediate
trauma.
03:46:24.000 --> 03:46:38.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, um, city hasn't done
enforcement, you know, since it sent out the letters. Enforcement, you
know, individual enforcement decisions are left to the discretion of
staff, who are the enforcement officers.
03:46:38.000 --> 03:46:43.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The normal process involves, you
know, a leather.
03:46:43.000 --> 03:46:50.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Stating, you know, to achieve
compliance within, you know, 14 days or something like that.
03:46:50.000 --> 03:46:54.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: There might be a notice of
violation after that.
03:46:54.000 --> 03:46:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: There are then penalties.
03:46:57.000 --> 03:47:14.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: possibility for city to impose
fines. Those fines are generally up to an amount, and so that, you know,
the enforcement officer looks at the situation and determines, you know,
based on the circumstance, what's the appropriate level of fine to
impose.
03:47:14.000 --> 03:47:16.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: in that situation.
03:47:17.000 --> 03:47:32.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I have a question for
clarification, and you can go ahead and sit down. I'm sorry I don't want
to make you keep standing there unless anyone else has questions for
them. Okay, we're good. Thank you. For city staff. I'm reading in all
these FAQs here. It says one of the questions number 43.
03:47:32.000 --> 03:47:37.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: has staff met with A and M
barbecue, and I see that.
03:47:38.000 --> 03:48:00.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Staff met with the owner in March.
The city manager spoke with Mr. Austin on May 28, th and on June 8, th
met with Mr. Austin, the Santa Rosa and the Santa Rosa, Sonoma County,
Naacp. President, and planning and building staff to discuss compliance
issues as noted above A and M. Have stayed in contact with the city and
shared operational and long term business plans which include
confidential business information.
03:48:00.000 --> 03:48:07.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So I just I feel like we're hearing
contradictory information. So I just want to just clarify with this
question here.
03:48:07.000 --> 03:48:09.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, for the public.
03:48:11.000 --> 03:48:35.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So I guess I'm unclear what the
contradictory information is. So he was. Well, I just heard that you know
that they hadn't heard anything since since the letter in May. But here
it says you met with them in June, and I don't want to speak for Finn,
but I just want to say that per our conversation. What Finn was asking
about was a information from the building official related to what the
notice of violations was.
03:48:35.000 --> 03:48:54.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: They have been in contact with
staff. It is confidential what they provided to us. I do not have the
right to tell, say, what their business plan is, or what… Oh, I'm not
asking that. I'm just asking, but they've been in continued contact, but
it's just with certain people, certain… Yes, I believe there's two
different things that were going on. They have been in contact, providing
us information. They had requested.
03:48:54.000 --> 03:49:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: other. What the what the current
zone, what the zoning violation was is my understanding, and I believe
building thought that they had responded, and then it was brought to my
attention from Finn that they had not. So I followed up at it at that
point. I see. I'm sorry. I just want to understand. I just want to make
sure there was. It was 2 different.
03:49:11.000 --> 03:49:18.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: 2 different issues that were. They
have been in contact with us continually with that confidential
information.
03:49:18.000 --> 03:49:20.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Got it. Okay.
03:49:20.000 --> 03:49:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Let me see here. Any other
questions? I need to look at online here.
03:49:26.000 --> 03:49:28.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Let's see.
03:49:30.000 --> 03:49:34.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Sorry, I'm just trying to review
this really quickly if there's anything else.
03:49:35.000 --> 03:49:37.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, no one else?
03:49:37.000 --> 03:49:39.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: You're good.
03:49:39.000 --> 03:49:41.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay.
03:49:41.000 --> 03:49:42.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you.
03:49:44.000 --> 03:49:46.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Oh, there's something.
03:49:47.000 --> 03:49:51.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I see. Okay. All right. Well, if we
don't have any other…
03:49:55.000 --> 03:50:04.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Always count on you for the comedy
release. Like, breaking the moment. Um, okay, so what we're gonna do is
go out to public comment.
03:50:04.000 --> 03:50:17.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Mayor. So this is public
comment on the discussion of the rezone and use permit for A&M Barbecue.
If you'd like to make a public comment, it is a 2-minute time limit per
speaker. I do chambers first, and then go out to Zoom.
03:50:23.000 --> 03:50:27.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Hi, my name is Doug Yule. I live on
Petaluma Avenue.
03:50:27.000 --> 03:50:29.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, but…

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03:50:29.000 --> 03:50:30.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: First of all, just…
03:50:30.000 --> 03:50:32.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Since listening to the questions.
03:50:32.000 --> 03:50:47.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, El Cornell won't work. You're
right across the street from Apple Valley at Post Acute Care. You know,
what, are you gonna pump that smoke at those people? And just because
they can't complain doesn't mean they're gonna be able to deal with it.
03:50:47.000 --> 03:50:49.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Secondly.
03:50:49.000 --> 03:50:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I appreciate the fact that the
council's trying, you know, every member on the council is trying not to
hamstring the business.
03:50:57.000 --> 03:51:02.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Please stop hamstringing the
residents.
03:51:02.000 --> 03:51:07.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We need the smoke to stop. We need
it to stop now.
03:51:07.000 --> 03:51:08.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: This is…
03:51:08.000 --> 03:51:15.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: If you're going to kick that can
down the road with zoning, we still need enforcement right away.
03:51:15.000 --> 03:51:20.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It's not something you can just
postpone and postpone and postpone.
03:51:20.000 --> 03:51:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the harms have been done. It's been
over a year since those, you know, since A&M has been.
03:51:26.000 --> 03:51:27.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Building smoke.
03:51:27.000 --> 03:51:32.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: blowing smoke, if you will, you
know, at us.
03:51:32.000 --> 03:51:34.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And it's just not acceptable.

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03:51:35.000 --> 03:51:36.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you.
03:51:36.000 --> 03:51:42.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.
Next, I'll go out to Zoom. Kyle, can you unmute yourself, please?
03:51:47.000 --> 03:51:49.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Kyle, can you unmute yourself,
please?
03:51:50.000 --> 03:51:52.000
Kyle Falbo: There we go.
03:51:51.000 --> 03:51:54.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you. Can you see the timer?
03:51:53.000 --> 03:51:55.000
Kyle Falbo: I can't.
03:51:54.000 --> 03:51:56.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Right. Go ahead, please.
03:51:56.000 --> 03:52:04.000
Kyle Falbo: So thanks again for the political theater and the
unprecedented move of calling the business owner up.
03:52:04.000 --> 03:52:17.000
Kyle Falbo: to have conversation, um, which is, I think, kind of an
orthodox approach here, um, we learn that the city's own building
department.
03:52:17.000 --> 03:52:24.000
Kyle Falbo: Failed to communicate with the business owner, despite
multiple emailed requests.
03:52:24.000 --> 03:52:39.000
Kyle Falbo: And once that was communicated, then suddenly the mayor chose
to cut that conversation short, not follow up on that particular
information, and then to proceed with other lines of questioning.
03:52:39.000 --> 03:52:44.000
Kyle Falbo: And then, for quite some time, other discussion, but…
03:52:44.000 --> 03:52:51.000
Kyle Falbo: not really addressing this issue. And praise to Mary here for
taking accountability.
03:52:51.000 --> 03:53:03.000
Kyle Falbo: for that information, right? We've been at this for months,
and the fact that communication is so poor between city officials.
03:53:03.000 --> 03:53:19.000

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Kyle Falbo: and business owners on this controversial issue, and that
council is in the dark, and then, you know, congrats to Councilmember
Hinton to try to suggest that what happens in a public city council
meeting.
03:53:19.000 --> 03:53:34.000
Kyle Falbo: constitutes communication in an official capacity outside of
the scope of the business… of the planning depart… or the… the
building department's official communication, that's interesting too. But
I don't expect that you're gonna…
03:53:34.000 --> 03:53:37.000
Kyle Falbo: address this issue, right?
03:53:37.000 --> 03:53:54.000
Kyle Falbo: Mary owned up to it. That's great. Are we going to follow up
and see how we do as a city in terms of communicating with businesses,
how we do in terms of accountability of our city management to make sure
that we don't have these kind of oversights in the future?
03:53:55.000 --> 03:54:01.000
Kyle Falbo: It's not clear, because I've seen city management make
mistakes lots, and I don't see a lot of oversight.
03:54:01.000 --> 03:54:03.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Kyle, that's two minutes.
03:54:03.000 --> 03:54:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.
Next, I'll come back into chambers. Yeah, uh, good, good evening. I'm Kim
Keller. I live, um, on Eleanor Avenue, um, and, uh, so, um, I live in a
pla- uh, where I live, um.
03:54:18.000 --> 03:54:27.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Walker Avenue kind of funnels the
smoke right up our street, and you know, on certain days it's just really
unbearable.
03:54:27.000 --> 03:54:35.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And so for a lot of us in the
neighborhood, this is not a complicated issue, it's a public health
issue.
03:54:35.000 --> 03:54:50.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: simple, right? It's a public health
issue for those of us who are who live there. And so you know, there's
lots of options. All I care about is stopping the smoke right?
03:54:50.000 --> 03:55:12.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and period. And so, you know, after
a year of dealing with this smoke, I have all the classic symptoms of
wood smoke inhalation almost daily. I've had to adjust my schedule in
significant ways in terms of when I'm outside, when I'm not outside, when
I have my windows open.

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03:55:12.000 --> 03:55:21.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I've had to expend $21,000 in order
to purchase an air conditioning system so that I don't burn up.
03:55:21.000 --> 03:55:29.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: because I can't open my windows,
you know, I've had real harm here.
03:55:29.000 --> 03:55:34.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Something needs to happen. We
cannot continue like this. It's not fair.
03:55:34.000 --> 03:55:48.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, it's just not. Um, I… just
to, um, and just to say, you know, lastly, the new smoker there, it may
be a little smaller, but it's big. It's a big…
03:55:48.000 --> 03:56:00.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: industrial commercial smoker, the
new one. And I'm sorry, I've done a ton of research on this. I don't
believe there's any clean smoke without a good filtration system on it.
03:56:00.000 --> 03:56:15.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So I also wanna say, I know for a
fact that there are people on the city council who have bended over
backwards to make this work for the company. Sometimes I feel- In that
few minutes. Anyway, thank you.
03:56:15.000 --> 03:56:21.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.
Next I'll go out to Zoom. Sarah, can you unmute yourself please?
03:56:22.000 --> 03:56:34.000
Sarah’s iphone: Hi, um, my name's Sarah, I live in Sebastopol. Um, I'm
a huge fan of A&M Barbecue, and the response kind of feels as if…
03:56:34.000 --> 03:56:52.000
Sarah’s iphone: they're kind of getting pushed out of town, and there's
not a lot of efforts being made on their part to allow their business to
continue functioning or find another way. And I'm just wondering why
that's occurring, and I really hope that the business is able to stay in
Sebastopol.
03:56:53.000 --> 03:56:54.000
Sarah’s iphone: That's it. Thank you.
03:56:54.000 --> 03:56:58.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Sarah, for your public
comment. Next, I will come back into the chambers.
03:56:58.000 --> 03:57:08.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Kit Keller, it's my sister Kim
there. Again, we lived down at the bottom of Walker, and for a year we've
been breathing in the smoke.
03:57:08.000 --> 03:57:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: If all of these big fans.
03:57:11.000 --> 03:57:22.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: of A&M, and I've heard so much good
things about their food, put together a GoFundMe and get these people
some filters.
03:57:22.000 --> 03:57:24.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And the issue is solved.
03:57:25.000 --> 03:57:31.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And it's not hard to find these
filters. Go online. You can purchase them online.
03:57:32.000 --> 03:57:40.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thousands and thousands of
barbecues use them across the United States. It doesn't require new
engineering.
03:57:40.000 --> 03:57:42.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: You can buy them online.
03:57:43.000 --> 03:57:48.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.
Next, I'll go back out to Zoom. Rob, can you unmute yourself, please?
03:57:49.000 --> 03:57:51.000
Rob: Yeah, can you hear me?
03:57:50.000 --> 03:57:53.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I can. Can you see the timer?
03:57:52.000 --> 03:57:54.000
Rob: Yeah, yeah, I can.
03:57:53.000 --> 03:57:55.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Great. Go ahead, please.
03:57:54.000 --> 03:57:56.000
Rob: Uh, um…
03:57:56.000 --> 03:58:02.000
Rob: I I think that the the kind of the conversations that people are
having here are indicative of.
03:58:02.000 --> 03:58:12.000
Rob: sort of the Sebastopol mentality of throwing money at it, hey, the
money's available, you can do a GoFundMe, you can get it, it's simple,
put money on it.

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03:58:12.000 --> 03:58:14.000
Rob: But what…
03:58:14.000 --> 03:58:22.000
Rob: I guess what strikes me the most is that… that businesses have
been running people out of Sebastopol.
03:58:22.000 --> 03:58:36.000
Rob: for a long time. You have the soccer going on at the different
schools, and people can't be in their homes because of the noise. There's
real physical, emotional damage that goes on there.
03:58:36.000 --> 03:58:48.000
Rob: But where, you know, where are the people who are complaining about
that? It's just the people who experience it. Now you've got people with
smokers, and people are breathing smoke. They think real, physical harm,
but…
03:58:49.000 --> 03:59:03.000
Rob: other people aren't coming to their aid, um, you know, because they
didn't come to somebody else's aid. Like, the problem is NIMBY, you know,
it's not in… not really NIMBY, it's not in your backyard, it's not in
my backyard, so I don't care about it.
03:59:03.000 --> 03:59:16.000
Rob: I think A&M has bent over backwards to try and help the situation.
It's probably not as fast enough for anybody's satisfaction, but it seems
like they've worked pretty hard.
03:59:18.000 --> 03:59:19.000
Rob: That's it.
03:59:18.000 --> 03:59:24.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Rob. Thank you, Rob, for
your public comment. Next, I'll come back into chambers, if there's
anyone in cham.
03:59:34.000 --> 03:59:38.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Go ahead. Do you want me to jump in
when you have about 30 seconds left?
03:59:40.000 --> 03:59:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I didn't start. No, I know. I said,
I will jump in when you have about 30 seconds left. Thank you. You're
welcome. Sorry I missed that. Good evening, everyone. I just want to
point out some of the things that are happening that I'm observing in
this conversation. Blame is being placed on our business for failures
that are.
03:59:57.000 --> 04:00:14.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: bureaucratic processes that exist
within the city infrastructure and lack of response time. And that is

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absolutely where the tension point is coming. While they can only do so
much to adapt their business to maneuver the expectations of meeting.
04:00:14.000 --> 04:00:33.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: air quality, smoke, productivity,
they can only operate with the clarity they receive for what they are
permitted to do. And as explained by the city attorney, the size of small
barbecue has not been clearly defined, nor has it been defined in this
process that we've come before.
04:00:33.000 --> 04:00:58.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you, and multiple times as a
council, and many months ago, when I came before you as a council, I
explicitly said, Please don't back yourselves into a corner where now
you're left with little to no options, and yet still have to provide
direction to staff. That's going to take time, which is exactly where
we've landed today at the end of where this all lands. You don't want the
business to fail, and you also want your residents happy, and both things
can be true.
04:00:58.000 --> 04:01:13.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: if there's some ownership and
direction provided by your body to the staff to make that happen and to
make that a realized goal. You were given 2, 3 options at the head of the
presentation from the city attorney. You can zone the parcel as it is.
04:01:13.000 --> 04:01:35.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and, as stated by the business
owner, just because they're 95% of the way with another endeavor does not
mean that they may be moving the very next day for many of you. You are
business owners and leaders in this community. You know that you may get
the keys and find a leaky faucet. So when you're making this decision
this evening, really consider the whole piece.
04:01:35.000 --> 04:01:49.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And I'm really deeply disturbed at
the amount of times that rumors are coming up instead of facts. Speak
directly to the entities instead of listening to hearsay, because that's
really how you got in the cloud of plume that you're in right now.
04:01:49.000 --> 04:01:54.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.
Next, I'll go out to Zoom. Oliver, can you unmute yourself, please?
04:01:54.000 --> 04:01:57.000
Oliver: Yep, unmuted, and I can see the timer.
04:01:56.000 --> 04:01:58.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Awesome. Thank you.
04:01:58.000 --> 04:02:00.000
Oliver: Yep. So…
04:02:00.000 --> 04:02:14.000

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Oliver: I mean, I don't know how people would think if I opened a diesel
truck performance center in the middle of town, in an area that's not
zoned for that. A lot of people here would hate that.
04:02:14.000 --> 04:02:31.000
Oliver: And the point is a lot of people seem to be saying they love the
food, which I'm sure is very good. But the simple fact of the matter is
that this business opened in an area that was not zoned for what they are
supposed to be doing in a residential area. And the residents were
understandably very, very unhappy about that.
04:02:31.000 --> 04:02:46.000
Oliver: So this is a very, very simple zoning issue at the end of the
day. Excuse me. And the solution has to be that the business needs to
move to an area of the city or elsewhere, which is zoned to do this type
of thing. So all of this kind of.
04:02:46.000 --> 04:03:03.000
Oliver: We're trying as hard as we can and we'll move our diesel
performance truck analogy business when we can find somewhere else to
tune trucks and make a lot of noise and smell and so on. But we're a
really cool business and everybody really likes us. It doesn't hold
water. You have laws in a city for a reason, which is.
04:03:03.000 --> 04:03:22.000
Oliver: And zoning for a reason. People bought a house in an area because
they liked the area, and they didn't expect to have a barbecue business
opening up next door and clouds of smoke coming into their house. So, to
me, this is a very, very simple issue, and we're beating around the bush
like crazy.
04:03:22.000 --> 04:03:34.000
Oliver: I'm normally really pro-business, but there has to be some
barriers or whatever, guidelines or whatever, that businesses can't just
open up wherever they want and ignore the rules. Thank you.
04:03:34.000 --> 04:03:39.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Oliver, for your public
comment. Next, I'll come back into chambers.
04:03:43.000 --> 04:03:50.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm Linda Civitello, and I live on
Petaluma Avenue.
04:03:50.000 --> 04:04:06.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And I think we're missing the
elephant in the room here. We've been doing all this talking about zoning
and permits and blah blah blah, but the real issue is that smoke kills
people.
04:04:06.000 --> 04:04:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Smoke causes health problems. It
causes me a health problem.

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04:04:11.000 --> 04:04:19.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And I bought my house, enjoyed it,
and then I wake up one night and the house is full of smoke.
04:04:19.000 --> 04:04:37.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I've invested in air filters. I'm
I've done everything I can to try to live here. And now my realtor says,
well, if you have to move, you have to disclose the smoke. And so that's
gonna change the market value of your house.
04:04:37.000 --> 04:04:47.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Because you have to tell
prospective buyers that there's a problem here, because there is a
problem here. This is not NIMBY.
04:04:47.000 --> 04:04:59.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I care about everyone. I fought in
the tobacco wars, and I know how people just ignored it initially. Oh,
smoking's not bad for you.
04:04:59.000 --> 04:05:07.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: But we know it is, and eventually
we won. And smoking is bad, and smoke is bad.
04:05:07.000 --> 04:05:16.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And so I just feel like even it's a
ridiculous suggestion to move to El Cornell.
04:05:16.000 --> 04:05:25.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and I agree with what Doug said.
you know. Okay, we're gonna have smokers blowing across the street to
Apple Valley with all the.
04:05:25.000 --> 04:05:28.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: ill people that live there.
04:05:28.000 --> 04:05:40.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: No, this is a horrible situation,
and the city should stop considering all these alternatives and just
enforce the rules that are already there.
04:05:40.000 --> 04:05:49.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: You know, I started a business. I
knew what the rules were, had to buy insurance, permits, license.
04:05:49.000 --> 04:05:53.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So does A&M. Linda, that's two
minutes.
04:05:53.000 --> 04:05:58.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you. Thank you for your
public comment. Next, I will go out to Zoom.
04:05:58.000 --> 04:06:02.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I have some with iPhone. Can you
unmute yourself, please?
04:06:03.000 --> 04:06:04.000
iPhone: Aye.
04:06:04.000 --> 04:06:06.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you. Can you see the timer?
04:06:04.000 --> 04:06:07.000
iPhone: Thank you. Timer.
04:06:07.000 --> 04:06:09.000
iPhone: Um, no…
04:06:08.000 --> 04:06:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, I'll jump in when you have
about 30 seconds left.
04:06:11.000 --> 04:06:19.000
iPhone: Okay. Um, my name is Ruby. I was actually at the meeting earlier,
but I had to leave. I work at A&M.
04:06:19.000 --> 04:06:21.000
iPhone: And…
04:06:22.000 --> 04:06:34.000
iPhone: I just find some of the negative comments very interesting,
especially after hearing all that Finn had to say and all the questions
that he answered. Um, I feel like…
04:06:36.000 --> 04:06:41.000
iPhone: We've been met with certain complications and.
04:06:41.000 --> 04:06:48.000
iPhone: I feel as though people think we're not trying, and we're just
sitting around waiting for something to happen.
04:06:48.000 --> 04:06:58.000
iPhone: Um, but I can tell you firsthand, Finn and Chris and everyone on
the team has been working their butts off trying to figure out a
solution, and…
04:06:58.000 --> 04:06:59.000
iPhone: I am…
04:06:59.000 --> 04:07:03.000
iPhone: Very offended by the…
04:07:04.000 --> 04:07:07.000
iPhone: Uh, insinuation that we're not…
04:07:07.000 --> 04:07:17.000

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iPhone: working hard to find a solution, and we care about making
everybody happy. We don't just care about ourselves and our business, we
care about the community.
04:07:17.000 --> 04:07:19.000
iPhone: And…
04:07:19.000 --> 04:07:20.000
iPhone: I…
04:07:21.000 --> 04:07:26.000
iPhone: Understand that public speaking is hard, but I hope…
04:07:26.000 --> 04:07:32.000
iPhone: people are focusing on the things that Finn has to say, and give
him the opportunity.
04:07:32.000 --> 04:07:35.000
iPhone: To explain things, and…
04:07:35.000 --> 04:07:45.000
iPhone: appreciate the fact that he's standing up, answering our
questions, because with a lot of the public comments I'm hearing, it
sounds as though maybe you're not paying attention.
04:07:45.000 --> 04:07:48.000
iPhone: And I really hope…
04:07:46.000 --> 04:07:49.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Ruby, you have about 25 seconds.
04:07:48.000 --> 04:07:52.000
iPhone: I really hope that when Finn has more to say.
04:07:52.000 --> 04:07:53.000
iPhone: um…
04:07:53.000 --> 04:07:58.000
iPhone: You all really listen and try and understand because.
04:07:58.000 --> 04:08:04.000
iPhone: Based on some of the comments, it sounds like maybe you missed
some things that he was saying.
04:08:04.000 --> 04:08:05.000
iPhone: Umm.
04:08:05.000 --> 04:08:11.000
iPhone: But I will just give you the benefit of the doubt that maybe you
were just focused on your own speech.
04:08:11.000 --> 04:08:18.000
iPhone: And yeah, I hope everybody really just pays attention. Thank you.

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04:08:14.000 --> 04:08:17.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Ruby, that's two minutes.
04:08:17.000 --> 04:08:22.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.
Next, I will come back into chambers.
04:08:23.000 --> 04:08:30.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Good evening. My name is Ben Cowan,
and I live on Eleanor Avenue, about two blocks away from A&M.
04:08:30.000 --> 04:08:35.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We've talked at length about the
impacts of the smoke.
04:08:35.000 --> 04:08:42.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The health impacts, the nuisance
impacts, how we've had to adapt our lives around it.
04:08:42.000 --> 04:08:51.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I just want to talk briefly about
the timeline. The city was made aware of this issue more than one year
ago.
04:08:51.000 --> 04:08:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: A&M was first served notice of
violations in March.
04:08:57.000 --> 04:09:05.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: multiple violations until
enforcement abruptly stopped.
04:09:05.000 --> 04:09:10.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: without any explanation to the
neighborhood around the end of.
04:09:10.000 --> 04:09:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: May.
04:09:11.000 --> 04:09:23.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Uh, since then, we've been in this
continuation period of delayed enforcement. We've never been provided any
justification for that to the residents.
04:09:23.000 --> 04:09:31.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And in the meantime, the burden of
that decision has fallen completely on the residents to continue
breathing the smoke.
04:09:31.000 --> 04:09:46.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, I'd like to mirror the other
comments from the neighborhood. We are a neighborhood of people with
health issues. I have people with health issues in my home. I have

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neighbors with health issues. There's a number of whom cannot even be
here today.
04:09:46.000 --> 04:10:01.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: because they cannot leave their
home. And you know the difference. There's a difference between trying to
come up with a solution and actually solving a problem. Our issue is the
smoke. The smoke needs to stop, and we ask for action right now. Thank
you.
04:10:01.000 --> 04:10:05.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.
Next, I will go out to Zoom.
04:10:06.000 --> 04:10:10.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: If there's anyone on Zoom, June,
would you please unmute yourself, please?
04:10:10.000 --> 04:10:12.000
June: Yes, hello.
04:10:13.000 --> 04:10:16.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We can hear you. You can go ahead
with your public comment.
04:10:15.000 --> 04:10:30.000
June: Okay. Yeah, I mean, I do think this has been an unfortunate
situation, but the case is that there was a law on the books not to have
a commercial outdoor in this area, and there's a lot of reasons, good
reasons, to not have it there.
04:10:30.000 --> 04:10:41.000
June: Um, because of the very impacts it would cause to the neighborhoods
and the residents. And so, it's unfortunate that a business opened up
that wasn't permitted.
04:10:41.000 --> 04:10:57.000
June: That, but then when that business was found out and it was told,
you know, you don't change the law to then allow impacts that the law was
there to prevent. And I know people tried to work on a solution so that
wouldn't be harmful for the business.
04:10:57.000 --> 04:11:13.000
June: Um, but ultimately it is, if you have a law that you don't want to
have certain kinds of activities, and someone begins those activities,
um, you don't then change the law to allow those activities. And so, you
know, to allow a whole zone to now.
04:11:13.000 --> 04:11:31.000
June: allow the kind of impacts we've seen here. Um, and all the money,
we're in a fiscal emergency, and we, you know, staff time is very
valuable, and we've tried a lot to come with a creative solution here,
but, uh, the solution, I think, has got to be that we.

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04:11:31.000 --> 04:11:47.000
June: had certain protections in place to protect all the residents.
There's lots of people that have different kind of health impacts,
different kind of reasons that we wouldn't want this kind of operation in
these zones, and so it's very important that we protect all the residents
with that.
04:11:47.000 --> 04:12:04.000
June: And, you know, people should give whatever assistance they can to
this business, but that is different than changing the law to allow
impacts on others. So, you know, assistance for moving, assistance for
keeping the business in other areas, but it's not zoned for this area.
04:12:04.000 --> 04:12:05.000
June: Thank you.
04:12:05.000 --> 04:12:09.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Jean, for your public
comment. Next, I will come back into chambers.
04:12:17.000 --> 04:12:22.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Uh, what I'm gathering here is,
obviously, we have a lot of frustrated people on both sides.
04:12:23.000 --> 04:12:25.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: At the end of the day.
04:12:25.000 --> 04:12:29.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We need help from the city on both
sides.
04:12:29.000 --> 04:12:34.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: On what the path forward is. You
haven't been given clear answers, we haven't been given clear answers.
04:12:34.000 --> 04:12:37.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We're at the huge gray area now.
04:12:37.000 --> 04:12:50.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And the whole purpose of the CPU is
to remove that gray area, to protect the city, to protect the neighbors,
and to protect businesses. Right now, we don't have a system or a
structure in place.
04:12:50.000 --> 04:12:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: If somebody opens up another
restaurant in 6 months, are they gonna go through the same situation? Are
those neighbors gonna go through the same situation?
04:12:57.000 --> 04:13:12.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The whole reason to propose this,
and my suggestion is Solution B, is to create that structure. And I want
to clarify, just because we change the zoning, or the CPU, I fully
understand that there's not.

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04:13:12.000 --> 04:13:15.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Solve the problem.
04:13:15.000 --> 04:13:22.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I get that. I'm not… I don't want
that to happen so we can just continue doing whatever we want. That's
not… that's never been about that.
04:13:22.000 --> 04:13:42.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm suggesting we do that so that
we can get clear instruction from the city on what we need to do. Because
again, I've been asking, what are our options? What do we do? I would
love to just install a filter. The problem is, I don't know which kind of
filter is allowed or not allowed. So now I'm going to spend money to
build something, and then the city says, oh, that one's not allowed.
04:13:42.000 --> 04:13:55.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So that's the gray area. We need to
get rid of that gray area. We're willing to pay the fees, we're willing
to build things, make it happen, but I just need to know specifically
what my options are.
04:13:56.000 --> 04:14:02.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Finn, for your public
comment. Next, I'll go out to Zoom. Witte, can you unmute yourself,
please?
04:14:02.000 --> 04:14:05.000
Woody Hastings, The Climate Center: Yes, I can. I just did. Can you hear
me?
04:14:05.000 --> 04:14:07.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I can. Can you see the timer?
04:14:06.000 --> 04:14:08.000
Woody Hastings, The Climate Center: I can.
04:14:07.000 --> 04:14:09.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Great. Go ahead, please.
04:14:09.000 --> 04:14:25.000
Woody Hastings, The Climate Center: Thanks. Okay, yeah. First, st I just
Woody Hastings here. And I just want to try to chime in with some factual
information to back up what some of the people have said about this just
being a really a public health issue.
04:14:25.000 --> 04:14:46.000
Woody Hastings, The Climate Center: But 1st I did want to say that I
really do hope that the business can find a suitable location that's
zoned correctly for that type of business, so that they can do what they
would like to do, and the people can enjoy the food. I worked at the
South Coast Air Quality Management District in the late 19 nineties and
early 2 thousands.

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04:14:46.000 --> 04:15:02.000
Woody Hastings, The Climate Center: It's the largest air quality
management district in the State that's in the in the La and Orange
County area. and a lot of what I dealt with was all kinds of facilities
that are not compatible with residential areas.
04:15:02.000 --> 04:15:13.000
Woody Hastings, The Climate Center: you know, car spray painting shops,
dry cleaners, and anything that produces smoke, because smoke is harmful
to our health.
04:15:13.000 --> 04:15:37.000
Woody Hastings, The Climate Center: as has been said earlier. Particulate
matter, especially particulate matter. Pm. 2.5, which is super small
particulate matter that burrows deep in the lungs and causes all kinds of
health problems, even for healthy people. Never mind people who are
children. Everyone's supposed to be breathing clean air. That's what
we're designed to breathe.
04:15:37.000 --> 04:15:53.000
Woody Hastings, The Climate Center: and Pm. 2.5 produces all kinds of
disorders, stroke, respiratory problems, and premature deaths. There's
also this thing called pahs and paws, and those that's.
04:15:53.000 --> 04:16:10.000
Woody Hastings, The Climate Center: product of incomplete combustion of
of of the wood, and also of the fat that drips into the burning coals and
whatnot, and this is known to be carcinogenic. And so this is producing
carcinogenic.
04:16:10.000 --> 04:16:13.000
Woody Hastings, The Climate Center: smoke, and it needs to stop. Thanks.
04:16:13.000 --> 04:16:20.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Woody, for your public
comment. Next, I will come back into chambers, if there's anyone in
chambers that would like to make a public comment on this item.
04:16:21.000 --> 04:16:28.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I will go back out to
Zoom. If there's anyone on Zoom that would like to make a public comment
on this item, to please raise your hand virtually.
04:16:29.000 --> 04:16:32.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, public comment is
closed on this item.
04:16:32.000 --> 04:16:37.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, we're back at the… pardon
me, we're back at the dais, Councilmember Zolman.
04:16:37.000 --> 04:16:45.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm sorry, there was a late hand
that raised. Would you like me to reopen? Sure.
04:16:45.000 --> 04:16:47.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Katie, can you unmute yourself,
please?
04:16:48.000 --> 04:16:51.000
Katie Heath: Hi, can you hear me?
04:16:50.000 --> 04:16:53.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I can. Can you see the timer?
04:16:52.000 --> 04:16:55.000
Katie Heath: Yes, I can see the timer.
04:16:54.000 --> 04:16:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, go ahead with your public
comment, please.
04:16:56.000 --> 04:17:06.000
Katie Heath: Yeah, I am actually, I'm just trying to speak up in support
of A&M Barbecue. They've been a great…
04:17:06.000 --> 04:17:26.000
Katie Heath: staple to this community. I do understand the frustrations
that other people in the neighborhood have expressed. However, we do have
body shops, dry cleaners, and other businesses that produce smoke in the
area. And for some reason, um, A&M has been targeted, and I do
understand.
04:17:26.000 --> 04:17:34.000
Katie Heath: you know, um, the comments and discomfort that people are,
are saying that they have, but, um.
04:17:34.000 --> 04:17:53.000
Katie Heath: this is a disparate impact on a business that is actually
bringing in money to this community. They have not been effectively told
or counseled on how to make any changes or anything like that, and I
spoke with Finn back in July to try to connect him.
04:17:53.000 --> 04:18:20.000
Katie Heath: Connect them with business financing. If you guys had
followed up in a timely manner, they would have already installed any
kind of filters or anything needed. But because of you guys, they haven't
been able to do anything. And the same thing happened with Little Caesars
being open. Little Caesars wasn't supposed to be open in that location,
and now it's open and it's doing great, but it wasn't supposed to be open
there.
04:18:20.000 --> 04:18:35.000
Katie Heath: Somehow they don't have any problems, but A&M is facing not
only problems, but a lack of information completely. And I think that's

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very unfair. I do hear the people that are complaining, you know, and
they have the health issues.
04:18:35.000 --> 04:18:53.000
Katie Heath: And they were talking about the budgets and everything
earlier, but this is an income-producing business that is thriving in our
community, and it's something that we have not seen in a very long time.
We have vacant spaces, and this business is doing well and thriving, and
we need to support that.
04:18:54.000 --> 04:18:55.000
Katie Heath: Thank you.
04:18:55.000 --> 04:19:03.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Katie, for your public
comment. This will be last call for public comment. If there's anyone in
the chambers that would like to make a public comment.
04:19:03.000 --> 04:19:09.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I'll go out to Zoom.
If there's anyone on Zoom that would like to make a public comment, to
please raise your hand virtually.
04:19:09.000 --> 04:19:17.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, public comment is
closed on this item. Okay. Now it's closed. Councilmember Zolman.
04:19:17.000 --> 04:19:32.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, no, I appreciate everyone who
has weighed in, in, in the different ways. Um, for me, this is a public
health issue, um, based upon the history that I asked the question, the
history of this establishment, how it started, how it evolved.
04:19:32.000 --> 04:19:37.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the lacking of permitting, combined
by the fact that.
04:19:37.000 --> 04:19:54.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The neighbors did purchase their
property. There is such a thing as a property right to have quiet
enjoyment of one's property. Having smoked to this degree, which has been
verified by individual residents that live close to there on purple air,
the particulate matter is too high.
04:19:54.000 --> 04:20:10.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, also given the fact that when I
was asking our city attorney, um, whether we could actually condition
certain things, like have them cook off premise, um, what I heard him say
was, you, there's no permit to condition.
04:20:10.000 --> 04:20:28.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, based upon that, I'm going with
option 3, which is to direct staff to take any rezoning action particular
to this subject site, and to reinitiate enforcement action based upon

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what our city attorney says, and our city manager says, if we go with
that.
04:20:28.000 --> 04:20:35.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: My understanding is then they can
make their own choices about how they cook, where they cook, et cetera.
So that's where I'm at.
04:20:36.000 --> 04:20:39.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Anyone else with comments?
04:20:44.000 --> 04:20:47.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Oh, I'm sorry. Did you have —.
04:20:52.000 --> 04:21:04.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: This is not a place that I wanted
to be. And I think most of the people in this room might know that I have
given it my all for this event not to happen.
04:21:04.000 --> 04:21:08.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So unfortunately, you know, I'm not
sure.
04:21:09.000 --> 04:21:30.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Todd Bryan, There is. I as an
entrepreneur, I totally know the expense to having to suddenly either
move or get a very expensive piece of equipment, and you know it's
daunting, and I get it. Todd Bryan, And then there are real zoning issues
that cannot be overcome by simply just getting a scrubber.
04:21:31.000 --> 04:21:36.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, you know, I didn't want to be
in this position.
04:21:36.000 --> 04:21:43.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: But I have to be. And the zoning
isn't right. So I've got to go with three and.
04:21:43.000 --> 04:21:48.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Just try my best to get y'all into
the place that you need to be.
04:21:50.000 --> 04:21:52.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, Councilmember Hinton.
04:21:55.000 --> 04:21:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um…
04:21:57.000 --> 04:22:05.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, when you just look at the staff
report, you can see that Councilmember Carter and I brought this back in
July.
04:22:05.000 --> 04:22:08.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And to say that we haven't been
on…
04:22:09.000 --> 04:22:21.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: try to be on everyone's side,
understand the neighbors. I don't live far from the area. I've walked by
in the morning. I have smelled the smoke. I've walked the neighborhoods
when the smokers have been going.
04:22:21.000 --> 04:22:32.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And I understand maybe our staff
made a mistake about not replying, but I also don't think it's a gray
area. Here, gray area. Zoning is not gray.
04:22:32.000 --> 04:22:33.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: There is a rule.
04:22:33.000 --> 04:22:39.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: You guys broke it, and we have been
very patiently trying to get into compliance.
04:22:39.000 --> 04:22:54.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I think that some of the problems,
and I can't speak for why you haven't been able to secure another
location which I know you've been working on, I believe, is also because
there's rules with other locations right now. You can't go everywhere.
There's.
04:22:54.000 --> 04:22:58.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Everybody has zoning rules.
04:22:59.000 --> 04:23:10.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And I don't want to put a small
business out of business. I follow your Instagram. I want you to succeed.
We have been here.
04:23:10.000 --> 04:23:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, and it's tough, so I would like
to see… hate to say… a little bit of time to move, but…
04:23:20.000 --> 04:23:21.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Oh.
04:23:22.000 --> 04:23:31.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We… I don't believe in spot
zoning, and spot zoning is what we would be doing, is spot zoning one
location based on one.
04:23:31.000 --> 04:23:32.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Business.
04:23:32.000 --> 04:23:47.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: that is currently breaking the
rules. It's really easy to see the barbecue I have in my backyard, or the

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one outside Burt Crest Market, and what you guys have outside yours.
It's… we can tomato-tomato it, but the reality is you've got big
smokers, and they're…
04:23:47.000 --> 04:23:53.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: They've got a lot of smoke, and
it's been 7 months since March.
04:23:54.000 --> 04:24:01.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I would just can't continue to let
this go. So I'm going to be.
04:24:01.000 --> 04:24:08.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: asking staff for a recommendation
to give you some time, but that time will end.
04:24:09.000 --> 04:24:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: There has to be a deadline.
04:24:11.000 --> 04:24:14.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: You can't just sit here while…
04:24:14.000 --> 04:24:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: You ask for unlimited additional
time, and I'm sorry.
04:24:18.000 --> 04:24:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So I want to ask staff if we can
give some time before enforcement, but it would be a set time.
04:24:26.000 --> 04:24:30.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And that's my feedback tonight. All
right.
04:24:30.000 --> 04:24:41.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Vice Mayor? Yes, I would like to
hear from the staff in terms of what you're being accused of, that you
did not respond.
04:24:41.000 --> 04:24:56.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: that you were negligent, and
because I think if we can get a little bit better facts on the table, I
mean, if it's true, let's hear about it. But maybe your hands are tied
because you didn't have a council decision. I'm not sure. So I'd like to
know if you're willing.
04:24:56.000 --> 04:25:02.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: to address those accusations that
have been leveled against staff.
04:25:02.000 --> 04:25:06.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So the the request from the.
04:25:06.000 --> 04:25:17.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: business was for the following. A
list of specific municipal… excuse me, specific municipal, zoning,
building, fire, or other codes the state believes A&M BBQ is currently
violating.
04:25:17.000 --> 04:25:33.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The notice of violation… I'm
sorry, can you say that again, please? A list of the specific municipal,
zoning, building, fire, or other codes the city believes that A&M BBQ is
currently violating. Any notices, determinations, or document…
04:25:33.000 --> 04:25:53.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: documentation supporting those
conclusions. A copy of the original approved use permit, business
approval, site approval, or any other documentation outlining the
permitted use and operational scope of the property and business. Any
records or documentation reflecting the City's historical understanding
of the approved use of the site.
04:25:53.000 --> 04:26:03.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Uh, so my understanding is that
information was not, uh, collected and sent to them. However, the
business has received notices.
04:26:03.000 --> 04:26:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: with information in that the March
20 notice says that said, we need you to take out your current business
back to its original approved site, meaning we're moving the 2 large
smokers from the site and going back to the original smaller one out
front.
04:26:18.000 --> 04:26:35.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The April 8th letter says, in order
to approve the business, we will at a minimum need to go back to the
original smaller barbecue and remove the two larger units. The notice of
violation on May 20th identifies the municipal code violation as table.
04:26:35.000 --> 04:26:51.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: 17.25-1. So it sounds like a
collection of these documents that was requested was not prepared and
sent to them. But these core pieces of information had been provided in
notices previously.
04:26:52.000 --> 04:26:58.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, thank you very much. Um, does
our building person want to make a comment?
04:26:59.000 --> 04:27:03.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Probably not. Probably not, but
okay.
04:27:03.000 --> 04:27:15.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: But he's standing up, shifting in
his chair. Okay, well, wait a second here, I just want to keep it in

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order here, so if you have any comments… I just wanted to know if the
building department would, uh, Steve would like to make a comment.
04:27:15.000 --> 04:27:17.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Well, I'm not sure I.
04:27:17.000 --> 04:27:19.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I…
04:27:20.000 --> 04:27:24.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'd like to ask the city manager,
our attorney first.
04:27:24.000 --> 04:27:30.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Wait, give me one second here. I'm
just trying to keep order here, Alex. You can ask staff questions. Yes,
that's- Okay. All.
04:27:30.000 --> 04:27:32.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I just want to keep ordering.
04:27:37.000 --> 04:27:45.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I will start off by saying that Ben
is absolutely right in that we delayed in sending him information.
04:27:45.000 --> 04:27:46.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: um.
04:27:46.000 --> 04:27:52.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We had a staff member go off, we
had it prepared, and we thought it had been sent, and it was not.
04:27:53.000 --> 04:28:05.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That doesn't mean he didn't get all
of that information. All of that was sent in several letters, one of them
actually prepared by Alex, um, that I signed and sent out.
04:28:05.000 --> 04:28:09.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It detailed all of the violations.
04:28:09.000 --> 04:28:16.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The big problem here is that none
of the people associated with A&M Barbecue right now.
04:28:16.000 --> 04:28:23.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: were there when the business was
first approved in 2023.
04:28:23.000 --> 04:28:25.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um…
04:28:25.000 --> 04:28:30.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: They're all gone. So all the people
we talked to in the beginning are not there anymore.

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04:28:30.000 --> 04:28:38.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: This is an entirely new crew. So it
did create some problems on both sides with that issue.
04:28:39.000 --> 04:28:55.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the original smoker was the size of
3 of these chairs right here. You've all seen the 2 smokers that are
there now that started coming in in July of 24. They fill this. They fill
this room basically with the smokers we have now. So.
04:28:55.000 --> 04:29:04.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, a big difference. And then,
like I said, originally when it was approved, it was Marvin's Deli and
Barbecue.
04:29:04.000 --> 04:29:09.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and tiny little barbecue smaller
than than the table you're sitting in.
04:29:09.000 --> 04:29:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: They also had regular deli stuff
besides the barbecue, and then that changed in July of 24, when the crew
that's there now came in. Got it. Clarification, you, you said that you
did send a detailed letter of all the violations. Do you have the date?
04:29:26.000 --> 04:29:31.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: On that? Um, Alex just read them
off, but there was 3 letters sent.
04:29:31.000 --> 04:29:39.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: starting in March. There was one in
March, one in April, and one in May, I believe. Those three were all sent
to.
04:29:42.000 --> 04:29:49.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: to, I believe, the all-new crew. I
think the original opener of the business was gone by then.
04:29:50.000 --> 04:29:54.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay. Thank you very much. Anyone
else have questions for?
04:29:54.000 --> 04:29:56.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you.
04:29:57.000 --> 04:30:03.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay. Did you have any comments or
anything else?
04:30:05.000 --> 04:30:22.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I guess some of my comments are
that the BAAQMD, they're sensors on Morris Street, and that's pretty far

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from Eleanor, where the smoke is affecting the neighbors. I don't know. I
don't have the address on Morris, but it seems pretty far away.
04:30:22.000 --> 04:30:27.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Morris Longstreet. We're on Morris
right here.
04:30:29.000 --> 04:30:30.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I…
04:30:30.000 --> 04:30:32.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: don't think…
04:30:32.000 --> 04:30:43.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: with… I don't… I'm not
comfortable changing any zoning for a business, especially because
they're saying that they are 95%…
04:30:43.000 --> 04:30:46.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: You know, close to signing a lease
somewhere else.
04:30:46.000 --> 04:30:58.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I would support the restaurant
staying there. I would support a return to the original small smoker.
They probably very well know what size that small smoker was.
04:30:58.000 --> 04:31:05.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And to allow the business to
continue there, but to move the smokers off the property. And, um…
04:31:05.000 --> 04:31:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: so I guess that means starting
enforcement on the larger smokers, but it doesn't mean they… they
don't… they can keep the restaurant going until they finish their lease
and move. And…
04:31:18.000 --> 04:31:21.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I just think that.
04:31:21.000 --> 04:31:23.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: They're very successful.
04:31:23.000 --> 04:31:33.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Uh, the business is very well loved
and has been very successful, and it's really outgrown the location. I
think sometimes growing veins are hard.
04:31:33.000 --> 04:31:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And uh… and in this case, it
certainly caused a lot of problems and a lot of suffering to the
neighbors. And I'm… I'm sorry that you all were caught in that…
04:31:44.000 --> 04:31:47.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: situation.
04:31:49.000 --> 04:31:53.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, okay.
04:31:53.000 --> 04:32:08.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And I want to thank Staff for the
clarity about the notices, because, as Councilmember Hinton said, it has
been 7 months, so they've had 7 months notice to know that this is a
problem, and this has been delayed, and.
04:32:10.000 --> 04:32:20.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: My preference is to allow them to
keep the business, because our attorney said they could, and move the
smokers immediately.
04:32:20.000 --> 04:32:21.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, okay.
04:32:21.000 --> 04:32:23.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So I'm gonna weigh in too here.
04:32:23.000 --> 04:32:34.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: This is really unfortunate, and
it's such a conundrum, because as a business owner, I know how hard it
is, and kudos to the business for growing the way it has, I mean…
04:32:35.000 --> 04:32:36.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That's…
04:32:36.000 --> 04:32:42.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: it. It's it's hard to be in this
position up here, sitting here listening to this, because.
04:32:42.000 --> 04:32:47.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I also know as a business owner
that it takes a lot of work.
04:32:47.000 --> 04:32:53.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: to understand all the permits,
processes, and I say that as a business owner, but I also say that.
04:32:53.000 --> 04:33:02.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I run an organization that works
with emerging brands, everyday food brands. That's all I do in Northern
California, is work with food producers.
04:33:02.000 --> 04:33:07.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And that's one of the first things
we teach people, is that they have to understand the local.
04:33:07.000 --> 04:33:23.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The regional, the state, the
federal laws because of there's so many different regulations with that

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and it's complicated. It is complicated, but at the end of the day, we
all have to comply with that. So it really gets hard because zoning is in
place for a reason.
04:33:24.000 --> 04:33:39.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It's in place for a number of
reasons, and it is very black and white. It's not a gray area, and I am
not one to do spot zoning or to change zoning for just one business. So I
am also in the option. 3.
04:33:39.000 --> 04:33:48.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: space, and I mean, I know the
business is gonna have to do what it needs to do, but at this point, I'm
just not comfortable with changing zoning either. I believe that.
04:33:48.000 --> 04:33:52.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: that whatever enforcement needs to
happen, you know.
04:33:52.000 --> 04:34:09.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm you know, the city's gonna
gonna take that. So I'm option 3 as well for not changing any zoning at
this point. So I don't know what kind of motion do you? Oh, go ahead!
Question. Can I just? Yeah, I want to ask a question. So if we're voting
on option 3, what is the timeline? That is.
04:34:09.000 --> 04:34:12.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: will impact the business.
04:34:12.000 --> 04:34:22.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: If we start enforcing, we're on a
Tuesday, how does this roll so that we can.
04:34:22.000 --> 04:34:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: really understand and have the
public understand.
04:34:26.000 --> 04:34:39.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: what rules then take over for
enforcement, based on our vote tonight? Yeah, staff would, um, issue a
notice of violation to the business if it continues to operate, um.
04:34:39.000 --> 04:34:47.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: in the manner, uh, not permitted by
our zoning code. Those generally would… would give 14 days for
compliance, and then after that.
04:34:47.000 --> 04:35:02.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Depending on the situation, the
city might pursue a second notice of violation, if perhaps maybe things
have changed, but maybe there's still some outstanding things that are in
violation.
04:35:02.000 --> 04:35:07.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: If there's been no progress, the
city might begin issuing fines.
04:35:07.000 --> 04:35:21.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, you know, which our codes say
could be up to, uh, $500 a day. The, the, you know, the staff would
decide based on the violation where up to $500 that would be, and, and,
you know, how.
04:35:21.000 --> 04:35:22.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: um…
04:35:22.000 --> 04:35:31.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: how frequently they issue those
fines. If the council gave direction to delay ending the pause, you know,
then…
04:35:31.000 --> 04:35:38.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you know, obviously, Staff wouldn't
take any action or send any notices until the the.
04:35:38.000 --> 04:35:40.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That delay was…
04:35:40.000 --> 04:35:42.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: elapsed.
04:35:44.000 --> 04:35:54.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: to to clarify the action of so
number 3 is direct staff to not take any rezoning action, and I agree
with that.
04:35:54.000 --> 04:35:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and reinitiate enforcement.
04:35:57.000 --> 04:36:04.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So does enforcement mean they have
to move the 2 large smokers. Is that correct?
04:36:04.000 --> 04:36:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And they can continue as a
restaurant there. Yes, that if the two large smokers…
04:36:11.000 --> 04:36:16.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: uh, continued there in operation,
that that would be in violation of the code.
04:36:16.000 --> 04:36:35.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So can we make it clear that we
want the two large smokers moved, and that they can continue to be a
restaurant? I think that's not the question here, right? I mean, we're
just talking about zoning, not whether or not they can be a business,
because they can make the decisions, we just enforce the zoning, and then
it all falls into place based on enforcement.

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04:36:35.000 --> 04:36:39.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Right? Does that I understand that
correct? I just wanna make sure.
04:36:41.000 --> 04:36:52.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yes, well, yeah, I want to make
sure that they don't… they don't have to stop being a restaurant, but
just having the smokers moved. Can you clarify that? Yeah, we can't
control… like, we…
04:36:52.000 --> 04:36:59.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Do not stop, or will not do
enforcement against any business that's not violating a code, a section
of the code.
04:37:00.000 --> 04:37:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So if they're operating in a manner
that does not violate any section of the code, there will be no
enforcement. Right. Okay, go ahead. Could we direct tonight's staff.
04:37:11.000 --> 04:37:14.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: to not enforce.
04:37:14.000 --> 04:37:20.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: fines or to give a lower level of
fine direction to staff.
04:37:20.000 --> 04:37:38.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: If they're not complying for a
period of time because I mean, I just want to consider the impact of
everyone in a $500 a day fine is going to just shut down somebody pretty
quickly. You can certainly delay.
04:37:38.000 --> 04:37:50.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: direct staff to I mean, there
should would be a penalty. But I'm just trying to figure out. So the the
City Council is the appeal body for all the fines and things. So if.
04:37:50.000 --> 04:37:53.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Council is not…
04:37:53.000 --> 04:38:01.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: happy with a fine, or something
that gets appeal to it, you know, you could certainly lower it. I would
say, um…
04:38:01.000 --> 04:38:09.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you know, those individual
decisions should be left to staff. Okay. If you want to state that, you
know.
04:38:09.000 --> 04:38:19.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I think I heard you mention
earlier, no enforcement for X days to give them a little bit of time.
That's certainly direction the Council could provide.
04:38:19.000 --> 04:38:25.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: of a timeframe where, you know,
before commencement of…
04:38:25.000 --> 04:38:29.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And the enforcement. And our teams.
Yeah. Something.
04:38:32.000 --> 04:38:33.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay. Okay.
04:38:34.000 --> 04:38:51.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: No, I mean, I sort of said where I
was leaning, but I'll go ahead and make the motion that we pursue option
3, which is to direct staff not to take any rezoning action particular to
the subject site and to reinitiate enforcement actions.
04:38:57.000 --> 04:38:59.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you.
04:38:59.000 --> 04:39:00.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Second.
04:39:05.000 --> 04:39:08.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Wait. Mary?
04:39:09.000 --> 04:39:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We had a first and a second.
04:39:12.000 --> 04:39:16.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: No further discussion. I just want
to make sure before I call for the motion.
04:39:16.000 --> 04:39:32.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So so moved by council members out.
Zolman, and seconded by Council Member Carter, to direct staff to not
take any rezoning action to this subject, set or zone, and this option
will result will result in the reinitiation of the enforcement actions.
04:39:32.000 --> 04:39:37.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Councilmember Carter? Yes.
Councilmember Hinton?
04:39:43.000 --> 04:39:45.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Mmhm.
04:39:47.000 --> 04:39:53.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Uh, yes. Councilmember Zellman?
Yes. Vice Mayor Maurer? Yes. Mayor McLewis?

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04:39:53.000 --> 04:39:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Unfortunately, yes. Motion passes
unanimously.
04:40:00.000 --> 04:40:06.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Madam Mayor, can I make a request?
04:40:06.000 --> 04:40:21.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the… the people that I were
thinking were coming for the next agenda item, I… they're not able to
make tonight, and we have had people that I know for sure who are
associated with our last item, um, number…
04:40:21.000 --> 04:40:36.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: 13 here all night. Only because
I've seen them and met with them. So since they've been here, and to make
sure we have adequate time, could I make a recommendation to switch them
around the last 2. Yes, and I'm just gonna say I need to take a 2 min bio
break.
04:40:36.000 --> 04:40:47.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Before we continue, sorry about
that, TMI, but since I'm running the meeting… So, is everyone in
agreement to switch the items, first of all, before we do that?
04:40:48.000 --> 04:40:53.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: There's just that though. Is that
okay? Okay. All right, so we're gonna do that and just take a two minute
break. I just.
04:40:55.000 --> 04:40:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Bye.
04:41:18.000 --> 04:41:19.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I will…
04:41:22.000 --> 04:41:24.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I have a joke.
04:41:25.000 --> 04:41:28.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Is everything there?
04:41:33.000 --> 04:41:48.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So they switched off the box.
04:41:48.000 --> 04:41:51.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It's all that I can think of.
04:41:51.000 --> 04:41:55.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: If you want to know better, you
don't have to sit back.
04:41:55.000 --> 04:42:00.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Well, I think my name is Jessica.

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04:42:00.000 --> 04:42:02.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yes, it must be done.
04:42:02.000 --> 04:42:07.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: any panel outside the one you can
come to ask me to do something.
04:42:07.000 --> 04:42:10.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I don't think so.
04:42:10.000 --> 04:42:13.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for holding.
04:42:28.000 --> 04:42:45.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That's all.
04:43:32.000 --> 04:43:56.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I don't know.
04:44:38.000 --> 04:44:54.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yes, yeah, on my side.
04:44:54.000 --> 04:44:59.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It's overlooked, overlooked.
04:44:59.000 --> 04:45:01.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Hey, let's get ready to start
hearing something.
04:45:08.000 --> 04:45:13.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We need to get this going again.
Just hammer.
04:45:13.000 --> 04:45:14.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Bye.
04:45:14.000 --> 04:45:22.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: get Mary to stop talking with
Steve. They could talk later. Are we ready to get going, everyone?
04:45:22.000 --> 04:45:27.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Mary, Alex. Can we get going? This
can wait.
04:45:28.000 --> 04:45:32.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We are going to run out of time and
there's been a lot of people here all night.
04:45:33.000 --> 04:45:36.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: All right, everyone. Let's see. Are
we on?
04:45:36.000 --> 04:45:43.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Is it okay? Okay. All right, we are
back at the dais here, and we are switching, um, our…
04:45:43.000 --> 04:45:52.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Just to recap, we're switching our
agenda around moving item 12, um, down and moving 13 up, so we're gonna
address…
04:45:52.000 --> 04:46:02.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Number 13, creation of ad hoc
committee or council liaison regarding racism, social bullying, and
mockery, and direction regarding training and other options.
04:46:02.000 --> 04:46:10.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Let's see. I'll take this, Mayor.
Good evening again.
04:46:10.000 --> 04:46:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So a very brief recap, as you know,
the Council has twice before discussed racist graffiti and, you know,
mockery and insults that have involved.
04:46:26.000 --> 04:46:29.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: or, you know, appear to involve.
04:46:29.000 --> 04:46:41.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: kids from high school, uh, behind
the Safeway. Um, I… I won't go in all the background, because the…
the council has, you know, discussed that and heard that before at a
meeting, provided direction.
04:46:41.000 --> 04:46:53.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: for me to explore some comments,
some options. At the last meeting, the city council heard a lot of public
comment about different options or discussion.
04:46:53.000 --> 04:46:58.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, and different options for
addressing this, and some of the…
04:46:58.000 --> 04:47:06.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: underlying issues and what was a
good forum to handle this in. And so…
04:47:06.000 --> 04:47:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: before the Council tonight are a
couple things. One, seeking direction, um, and possible action on the
creation of either a ad hoc committee to.
04:47:19.000 --> 04:47:33.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: to address racism, social bullying,
and mockery. That committee could be empowered as part of the motion to
organize meetings with interested stakeholders, including the high
school, school district.

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04:47:33.000 --> 04:47:37.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Brookhaven, Safeway, you know,
neighbors, all of those.
04:47:38.000 --> 04:47:42.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And to report… review suggestions
and report back.
04:47:43.000 --> 04:47:49.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, and to assign staff liaison to
work with that committee. Option 2 is a more, um…
04:47:49.000 --> 04:47:58.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: limited. It's not an ad hoc
committee, it's appointing a liaison, and that liaison could hold
meetings with groups and things like that, but it'd really be a one
person.
04:47:59.000 --> 04:48:00.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: handling that.
04:48:00.000 --> 04:48:04.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Regardless of which option the
Council, uh.
04:48:04.000 --> 04:48:07.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: There's a few other options that
the…
04:48:07.000 --> 04:48:16.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: staff is looking for direction for.
One, whether you'd like the state to prepare a graffiti ordinance
requiring graffiti to be.
04:48:16.000 --> 04:48:20.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: cleaned and removed within a
certain period of time.
04:48:21.000 --> 04:48:23.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Second, approving, uh…
04:48:24.000 --> 04:48:28.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the city's use of the Sierra
who's…
04:48:28.000 --> 04:48:35.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: You all are aware Sierra is the
city's risk provider using some of their.
04:48:36.000 --> 04:48:50.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: race-based… excuse me, racial
bias and related courses available that we have access to as part of a

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member… as a member, and under IRMA, which are sort of our employment
coverage, they offer…
04:48:50.000 --> 04:49:06.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: a complimentary training to use
that, and they have a grant we can apply for that's $2,500 that could be
used for the similar thing. Councilmember Maurer, but let me be clear,
those are solely interior. Those trainings are only available.
04:49:06.000 --> 04:49:12.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, and to be provided for staff or
city officials. Um…
04:49:12.000 --> 04:49:20.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Another option, you know, this is
the and options, you know, now the or option is.
04:49:20.000 --> 04:49:28.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Councilmember Maurer and
Councilmember Zolan, I think, mentioned last meeting dedication of their
unused.
04:49:28.000 --> 04:49:41.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: conference and training funds to be
utilized for additional trainings, including trainings, perhaps to be
offered to the community that would not be covered by either CIRA or Irma
trainings.
04:49:41.000 --> 04:49:45.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So with that, happy to answer any
questions the Council has.
04:49:45.000 --> 04:49:47.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: about those.
04:49:48.000 --> 04:50:03.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Oh, go ahead, councilmember. Thank
you, Alex. One of the questions that I received right away, which is,
that's like nifty that the city is going to learn to be less racist. But
what is it going to do for us?
04:50:03.000 --> 04:50:19.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: as community members who have been
directly impacted by these actions. One of the emails that we received
later this afternoon specifically asked for and says, I support option
one only with meaningful resident membership.
04:50:19.000 --> 04:50:34.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: please amend it to include six
appointed community members alongside two council members. And then he
has other sort of, um, recommendations as far as scope, but then he also
says if council chooses option two.
04:50:34.000 --> 04:50:51.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, please also keep the resident
participation. So with the two options that staff have laid out, how
would that work? Either with the ad hoc, with two council, or one
liaison. Could there be members of the public? And that, if that is, can
you briefly explain what that would look like?
04:50:51.000 --> 04:51:07.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Whether it be encompassed for Brown
Act. Yes, it would be subject to the Brown Act. So an ad hoc committee
has to be a committee whose members are solely made up of less than the
majority of the city council.
04:51:07.000 --> 04:51:13.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The only members can be two city
council members, no members of the public for it to be an ad hoc
committee.
04:51:13.000 --> 04:51:25.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: If instead, the Council wants, uh,
to… and an ad hoc committee can meet with other people, right? They can
invite others to come and give input to their meetings, that's completely
fine.
04:51:25.000 --> 04:51:30.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: But if other individuals are going
to be members of the committee.
04:51:31.000 --> 04:51:37.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: similar to the building, the
Commons, for example, then that becomes a stand. That's a.
04:51:37.000 --> 04:51:45.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: not a standing committee, but it's
still a committee under… that's subject to the Brown Act, and so its
meetings would have to be noticed, and posted, and held.
04:51:45.000 --> 04:51:48.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: in that manner, which, you know…
04:51:48.000 --> 04:52:00.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I defer to the Council whether that
is good or bad, but it does include cost to the City of having to manage
the Brown Act meetings. And who would manage those meetings from the
staff?
04:52:00.000 --> 04:52:04.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I would defer to our city manager
to answer that.
04:52:06.000 --> 04:52:15.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: If this was going to be a standing
committee, I would recommend I take over this committee and then call in
staff when needed.

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04:52:17.000 --> 04:52:34.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Go ahead. Okay. So if it's an ad
hoc committee, can it just be like random meetings sometimes, or do
whatever it feels like it needs to do. And then also, what are the legal
ramifications of the city having an ad hoc committee and 2 members
holding committees.
04:52:34.000 --> 04:52:49.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: committee meetings or or just
findings. Are they obligated to report anything specific? Are they
obligated to any specific outcome? Or is that to be decided with the
creation of the ad hoc.
04:52:49.000 --> 04:52:54.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And do we create liability somehow
if we inadvertently make mistakes?
04:52:55.000 --> 04:52:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Promises, or…
04:52:58.000 --> 04:53:00.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We we don't.
04:53:00.000 --> 04:53:08.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: create any liability. I think as
part of creating the ad hoc, the Council would direct what they wanted.
Like, do you, you know…
04:53:08.000 --> 04:53:17.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: return with recommendations on
steps the city could take. You know, do outreach and engage with state
callers in return. Um…
04:53:17.000 --> 04:53:24.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: You know, ideally, you try to, you
know, no later than this date, or as soon as possible, you know, with…
04:53:24.000 --> 04:53:29.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: recommendations for addressing, you
know, community concerns.
04:53:31.000 --> 04:53:35.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Just so it's clear to the ad hoc
committee what their task is.
04:53:35.000 --> 04:53:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I have a question. You know, if
we're looking at, you know, putting together an ad hoc and addressing
these issues, do we actually have…
04:53:44.000 --> 04:53:48.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: You know, like, I mean, Mary,
you're saying you would be in charge of this.

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04:53:48.000 --> 04:54:00.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you know, what expertise do we have
within the city to address these issues? I know the county often has a
lot of different options and people who are, like, truly.
04:54:00.000 --> 04:54:16.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: dedicated to to these, you know. So
there's these topics. So I'm just wondering, like from a city
perspective, what what do we possess that could actually be considered an
expert in that to where we aren't making mistakes, or or you know, I I
just wanna understand that.
04:54:17.000 --> 04:54:27.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So the city would not be the
experts. So this ad hoc committee would be reaching… if it was an ad
hoc committee or a standing committee, they would be reaching out to the
experts.
04:54:27.000 --> 04:54:38.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So we would be pulling those people
in to help with the meeting. So whether it's an ad hoc or a standing
committee, we would be reaching out to the experts. We would… And that
we would be paying these experts to…
04:54:38.000 --> 04:54:40.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Just like we did with fire.
04:54:40.000 --> 04:54:45.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That would be a direction at the
Council that we would need to come back to if there was going to be a
cost for someone to…
04:54:45.000 --> 04:54:52.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: from one of the outside
organizations to come in and give a talk. So it would be staff time plus
possibly paying for that? Okay.
04:54:52.000 --> 04:55:07.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So if there were an ad hoc, my
understanding could be that, you know, maybe these meetings convene, you
find resources out there, but also just listening and holding, you know,
your own particular meetings.
04:55:07.000 --> 04:55:13.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: This may not incur any high-level
cost, nor staff time, unless…
04:55:13.000 --> 04:55:25.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Uh, you know, so, you know, or it
could be, you know, minimized. Yeah, if there's an ad hoc committee,
staff, you know, the two committee members can just decide for themselves
when they're gonna meet.
04:55:25.000 --> 04:55:36.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Uh, they may… I… I would…
there will still be some staff time, always, because, you know, maybe you
want to advertise, hey, the ad hoc committee is meeting on this day and
wants to hear from.
04:55:36.000 --> 04:55:52.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: whomever, rather than just
inviting. You know, I'm sure sometimes you would just invite specific
stakeholders, hey, we want to meet with the neighbors today, and you just
reach out to the neighbors, but there may be times you need staff's help
organizing, so I don't want to say there will never be any staff time,
but less.
04:55:52.000 --> 04:55:55.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Then, um.
04:55:56.000 --> 04:56:03.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It's, you know, a standing
committee, and for either one, you know, the Council can direct that as
part of it. Like, right now.
04:56:03.000 --> 04:56:12.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: all that's occurring is X amount of
staff time, and maybe part of the recommendations that come back are, and
we think the study should spend.
04:56:12.000 --> 04:56:15.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you know, X dollars to do…
04:56:15.000 --> 04:56:21.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Whatever that the recommendation
might be, you know, bring in an expert to lead so-and-so.
04:56:21.000 --> 04:56:25.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Then, you know, whatever the
recommendations might be.
04:56:26.000 --> 04:56:33.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I shut it off, sorry. Go ahead,
Councilmember Hinton. Two questions. So we don't have a graffiti
ordinance right now. Nothing.
04:56:33.000 --> 04:56:37.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We're just counting on people to do
the right thing. Okay, that's question one.
04:56:37.000 --> 04:56:43.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Question two is, I mean, the
trouble.
04:56:43.000 --> 04:56:45.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That's been with.
04:56:45.000 --> 04:56:48.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Youth, right? Youth… and then…
04:56:49.000 --> 04:56:52.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Having lived in Sevastopol, a lot
of the trouble is…
04:56:52.000 --> 04:57:00.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: is involving youth, has involved
youth. So Brookhaven, Anley, like, this is where we've been hearing about
it. Um…
04:57:03.000 --> 04:57:09.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I assume we could direct this
liaison.
04:57:09.000 --> 04:57:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: or ad hoc.
04:57:11.000 --> 04:57:13.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: to work with, you know.
04:57:13.000 --> 04:57:20.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: To really focus on our schools and
having an event, right, as we're talking about education.
04:57:20.000 --> 04:57:23.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah. Yes. Okay.
04:57:23.000 --> 04:57:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: similar to the Fentanyl.
04:57:26.000 --> 04:57:43.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Go ahead, Wisden. Council Member
Wojciechi. So just to be clear, because I have been posed a question too,
our options are like a standing committee like the Commons, an ad hoc
that was laid out in the staff report, or continue with a council
liaison. So we don't have things like advisory bodies.
04:57:43.000 --> 04:57:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Or advisory committees. Like, we
just don't have them and can't create them. I don't know. I mean, so
that's not something we've heard from the council before, but if you want
to create a permanent body, like you have the planning commission.
04:57:57.000 --> 04:58:07.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: that is an option, you know,
direction, and we come back for that, you know, creation of that with
membership and so on. That's an option if you want to create.
04:58:07.000 --> 04:58:23.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, an advisory body, that's
something. So like an advisory body would only look like a planning
commission where there would be people up here at the dais. There'd be a

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lot of staff time. Well, is that what you're saying? An advisory body is
subject to the Brown Act.
04:58:23.000 --> 04:58:35.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, if any committee appointed by
the City Council is subject to the Brown Act, unless it is comprised of
only two Council members with a limited jurisdiction.
04:58:35.000 --> 04:58:36.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay.
04:58:37.000 --> 04:58:40.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Bless me. Oh.
04:58:40.000 --> 04:58:51.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Well, uh, three of us are… are up
for re-election. I mean, two of us are running, and one is leaving.
One… one council member is leaving, so, um…
04:58:51.000 --> 04:58:56.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: These things take time to set up
and build. So what do you suggest?
04:58:56.000 --> 04:58:58.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: for that.
04:58:58.000 --> 04:59:14.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Well, you know, I think it depends
on what you are doing tonight. You know, if you have a liaison, you might
have someone available tonight. If you want a standing, you know, a
community-based group that includes council members and.
04:59:14.000 --> 04:59:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And residents, you know, we're
gonna have to…
04:59:18.000 --> 04:59:24.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: come back with a resolution to
create that. I don't know if the Council has, you know.
04:59:24.000 --> 04:59:27.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: there were the.
04:59:27.000 --> 04:59:36.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: building the commons, right, we…
there was no application process. It was, we designated the groups, they
designate who they want to… to serve.
04:59:36.000 --> 04:59:49.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: uh, the Council would have to
decide, or do we want to, you know, create applications from the public
to serve on this committee, or similar to building the Commons, sort of
leave it up to individual stakeholder groups to.

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04:59:49.000 --> 04:59:51.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: to send their appointees.
04:59:51.000 --> 04:59:53.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Go ahead.
04:59:53.000 --> 05:00:05.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'd like to flip back to the
graffiti ordinance, which is also part of this. Do we not have anything
that kind of broadly covers it?
05:00:05.000 --> 05:00:10.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Oh, we don't. Um, all the, uh…
05:00:11.000 --> 05:00:28.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Word graffiti only appears nine
times in our code. It's related to our recent NEWSRAC ordinance, and
there's some stuff about the skate park and parks, but there's no general
prohibition on it. You know, there may be some…
05:00:28.000 --> 05:00:48.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: general prohibition on your
building being a nuisance. But that doesn't have a clear standard of
remove graffiti within 72 hours. Oh, I see. Like a light, it's not like
uh defacing something, the person who did the graffiti Well, graffiti,
yes, graffiti is still a crime. This is about the property owner.
05:00:48.000 --> 05:00:52.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I got- Removing the graffiti. Yeah,
okay.
05:00:54.000 --> 05:00:56.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Go ahead.
05:00:56.000 --> 05:01:08.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I mean, this is a bit off topic,
but I am watching the time, and I do want to request that we hit requests
for future agenda items tonight. So I just put that into this discussion.
05:01:08.000 --> 05:01:21.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Keep that in mind. 1030 is pretty
close. Go ahead, Vice Mayor. So if it was one council member as a
liaison, could they hold meetings.
05:01:21.000 --> 05:01:37.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: without being a brown act. Could
they invite residents to come and and kind of create a scope of what the
ad hoc, what they could create a scope, and then, in that time you could
decide whether a liaison was sufficient, or whether you needed a.
05:01:37.000 --> 05:01:54.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: bigger body to discuss these
things. But like what I would ask is, do they want? Do they want it on
Zoom? Do you want to involve Safeway? Do you want to involve the police?

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What are your needs? And what do you want out of this collaboration with
us?
05:01:54.000 --> 05:02:09.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you know. How can what can we do
together to move move this issue forward? And so we received a good
letter from someone today this afternoon had some ideas.
05:02:09.000 --> 05:02:21.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, and I think that that's…
that's the conversation that I'm interested in hearing more from is the
residents, what are their needs, and what, you know, kind of brainstorm
around what we can do to help.
05:02:21.000 --> 05:02:24.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Maybe starting that process
tonight.
05:02:24.000 --> 05:02:40.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So I just wanted to. So you know,
I'm the one who in the past has met with Safeway and Annalee and Safeway
sent the letter with all the remedies that they, you know, all the
different steps that they've taken. I want to just say.
05:02:40.000 --> 05:02:52.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I don't want to speak for everyone,
but yet, being in those meetings, they… they are aware of this tonight,
you know, and they… they said they wanted to try all of these things
before they started in any kind of meetings or anything like that, so I'm
just…
05:02:52.000 --> 05:03:10.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: putting that out there for everyone
to know that you know that was something that they they wanted to work
through these different solutions that they have right now. So I we're
making assumptions that everyone will want to come to the table, and
maybe they will, because they didn't. You know I'm not their. I'm not
their spokesperson, but just sharing with you that you know.
05:03:11.000 --> 05:03:17.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: what I heard and that's why they
sent that letter. So just letting you know that.
05:03:17.000 --> 05:03:35.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Go ahead. I'm going to do a trial
motion to. Yeah. So I'm just asking, I mean, I haven't heard anything
else, right? I mean, you haven't heard anything since then, Mary, as far
as that, I guess I should have posed that as a question because knowing
what I've heard, but that was a couple weeks ago.
05:03:35.000 --> 05:03:47.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: No, I have heard nothing further
than the letter that we received from Safeway of the options that they

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were… or the actions that they were proposed to be taking. Okay, sorry,
I meant… it was a question in my head, but it wasn't coming out.
05:03:47.000 --> 05:03:49.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Any other questions?
05:03:49.000 --> 05:03:52.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, then let's go to public
comment.
05:03:53.000 --> 05:04:04.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Mayor. So this is public
comment. Um, this is a 2-minute time limit. If you would like to make a
public comment, I do chambers first, and then go out to Zoom, if there's
anyone in chambers that would like to make a public comment.
05:04:12.000 --> 05:04:15.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Well, I'll admit that I'm…
05:04:15.000 --> 05:04:28.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: pretty confused in terms of what
the choices are going forward. I came tonight, and I had a letter for you
advocating for an ad hoc committee, but in the letter I was also.
05:04:28.000 --> 05:04:34.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: asking that at least 6 community
members be part of that.
05:04:34.000 --> 05:04:49.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And it's my understanding that that
can't happen. I want to appreciate the Council for even bringing for
bringing this forward. But I also want to say that this is a very deep
problem.
05:04:49.000 --> 05:04:58.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It is not a problem of a few kids
at a high school who wrote racist things on a wall.
05:04:58.000 --> 05:05:11.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: If you read the newspapers, what is
going on in Sonoma County reflects what's going on in our country. There
is deep-seated racism here, and we need to look at it, and.
05:05:12.000 --> 05:05:16.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Many of us up here are white
people.
05:05:16.000 --> 05:05:19.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We need to own.
05:05:19.000 --> 05:05:36.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: what we have, and we need to look
really deep. And I do believe that education is a big key, I think,

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involving the kids involving the schools involving the sports programs is
all about. How do we re-educate.
05:05:36.000 --> 05:05:41.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: from a very racist point of view
and change it.
05:05:41.000 --> 05:05:54.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So I appreciate it, and I hope that
whatever you decide is going to involve the community in that, because I
think the community has lots of very good answers or suggestions.
05:05:54.000 --> 05:06:00.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you. Thank you for your
public comment. Next, I'll go out to Zoom. June, can you unmute yourself,
please?
05:06:02.000 --> 05:06:18.000
June: Yes, um, yeah, I just wanted to speak in support of this
discussion, and bringing this forward, and then talking about this very
serious problem. And I do think an ad hoc would be good, um, because
those two council members can meet with.
05:06:18.000 --> 05:06:34.000
June: six community members, and they can meet with other people, and
they can meet with those six community members again, and they can do a
lot, and I do think it's too much to put on one person to be the liaison.
I think with two people, there's a lot to be done, and a lot more would
happen.
05:06:34.000 --> 05:06:40.000
June: And it would have a lot more validity coming back as
recommendations for what maybe the city could do.
05:06:40.000 --> 05:06:52.000
June: And I do agree with what Cindy said about this as being a big
problem. I do not support a graffiti ordinance going forward. It came
before, and people looked at all the constitutional issues and…
05:06:52.000 --> 05:06:57.000
June: That's not the… that's not the core of the problem here. The
problem is racism.
05:06:57.000 --> 05:07:10.000
June: And that's really where we need to do our focus of activities and
attention, and seeing what more we can do. I do support trainings among
staff, all of that is great, do that.
05:07:10.000 --> 05:07:23.000
June: please do as much of that as you can, but I do think we need an ad
hoc, and we need community engagement around this, and we need attention
on this, because it is a very serious problem in our community. Thank
you.

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05:07:23.000 --> 05:07:27.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.
Next, I will come back into chambers.
05:07:39.000 --> 05:07:56.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thanks for the opportunity to
speak. I'm Gail Yamamoto Seymour. I'm the Civil Rights Social Justice
Committee Chair of the Japanese American Citizens League of Sonoma
County. I'm also a general member of the NAACP and a general member of
the Asian American Pacific Islander Coalition of the North Bay.
05:07:56.000 --> 05:08:02.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you very much for what you
said. Exactly. That's exactly what's happening.
05:08:02.000 --> 05:08:04.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So.
05:08:04.000 --> 05:08:16.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Basically, it's very concerning
that our youth is following the path of racism, and thanks very much for
tackling this head on, but of course we can't just address the symptoms,
we have to get to the.
05:08:16.000 --> 05:08:32.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the core of the issue and as
previous speaker said, it's happening in our county It's happening in our
state and our nation and everywhere, and it's really escalating. And the
graffiti itself isn't the problem, but the graffiti is oppressive.
05:08:32.000 --> 05:08:38.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It's frightening, and it makes all
of us community people, all of your people.
05:08:38.000 --> 05:08:53.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: unsafe in their own communities, so
it has to be dealt with. So I'm here tonight just to offer any
assistance, to be a stakeholder, to be part of the ad hoc committee. My
board has given me permission for that, and I also want to say that your
premier expert.
05:08:53.000 --> 05:08:59.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: on this issue is Kirsten Lange, who
is the president of the NAACP, who is here tonight.
05:08:59.000 --> 05:09:06.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you. Thank you, Gail, for
your public comment. Next, I'll go out to Zoom. Sarah, can you unmute
yourself, please?
05:09:07.000 --> 05:09:22.000
Sarah’s iphone: Hi, um, my name's Sarah, and I'm also one of the
residents here on the Pitt, um, street, and, um, I do understand Safeway

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has responded. I saw the copy of the letter of their response, and I do
want to address that.
05:09:22.000 --> 05:09:40.000
Sarah’s iphone: First of all, saying that they're sending someone by to
regularly monitor the area is absolutely false. I have not ever seen
anyone from Safeway. I will say the police has upped their monitoring,
but there's never been anyone from Safeway there.
05:09:40.000 --> 05:09:55.000
Sarah’s iphone: Um, the security camera, we've already brought that up.
I'm happy to see that that's something that they're now looking into. Um,
but going forward, I mean, if they're not going to remove that area, that
block.
05:09:55.000 --> 05:10:11.000
Sarah’s iphone: I brought this up before. I think we need to have it
fenced in. If they're not going to fence it in, I'd like to understand
why that is. I, myself, am a property manager, and I know, you know, if
any of my tenants were complaining about something like that, I would
have had it removed.
05:10:11.000 --> 05:10:20.000
Sarah’s iphone: immediately, you know, so the lack of response just
showed, you know, not a good taste in our mouth for them.
05:10:21.000 --> 05:10:37.000
Sarah’s iphone: To date, you know, like I said, the police have been
monitoring the area more, the kids have come by less, and that's more so
been, luckily, a result of the community stepping up and being a presence
there to make them uncomfortable.
05:10:37.000 --> 05:10:53.000
Sarah’s iphone: Another idea we had was installing a permanent garbage
can there, how they have outside of normal grocery stores, have one in
the back. These kids are littering all over the place. My 80-somethingyear-old neighbor, who's a veteran, is walking down and picking up after
these little kids.
05:10:53.000 --> 05:11:09.000
Sarah’s iphone: And then I just want to know what's the future plan of
response for all of this? Like, how quickly should we expect to hear
back? I mean, as a result of this whole thing coming out, I know one of
my neighbors has experienced some attack.
05:11:09.000 --> 05:11:17.000
Sarah’s iphone: directly towards her, towards her work, and her work
has had more action towards this than our own polls have.
05:11:15.000 --> 05:11:17.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Sarah, that's two minutes.
05:11:18.000 --> 05:11:26.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for… thank you for your
public comment. Next, I will come back into chambers, if there's anyone
in chambers that would like to make a public comment.
05:11:18.000 --> 05:11:20.000
Sarah’s iphone: Thanks.
05:11:34.000 --> 05:12:03.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Please go ahead. Okay. Good
evening, Kirsten Lange. I'm President of the Santa Rosa Sonoma County
branch of the NAACP. I will 1st and foremost say that this is not the 1st
time that these issues have come up with the youth in this community.
It's work that I've been doing in this community for 10 years, but I
don't do it for free, and it is not within the scope of my role as the
President of the NAACP. I have run my own business as a consultant and
subject matter expert to do this. I say that to say that in the small
town of Bellflower.
05:12:03.000 --> 05:12:25.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: California, where I lived for 2
years, when I called myself banning myself away from Sonoma County. This
issue came up with a grocery store in the neighborhood I lived in
Bellflowers, smaller than the city of Sebastopol, by like 3,000 people,
and we came together as a community and pressured the city council, who
then pressured the property owner that the grocer was in, and they left.
05:12:25.000 --> 05:12:50.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Well, they were pushed out, and
they would not renew their lease because they would not stand up to
address the property management and maintenance of the issues that were
occurring in that area which were racial epithet, drug and gang violence,
and so on and so forth. So you have the opportunity to leverage some some
willpower with safeway. They're also one of the corporations that rolled
back all their Dei policies and initiatives as a result of the turn of
the administration. So take what.
05:12:50.000 --> 05:13:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: what they say in their letter with
a little bit of a feather. Wait, if you will. I would also say that this
is an opportunity to really explore how some of the other cities have
convened. I've been consulting and contract work for the city of Santa
Rosa, both Srpd. And the city proper, and they formed advisory groups
that were made up of folks from both bodies and appointed members through
an application process. So it sounds like you may have some opportunities
to explore some additional opportunities.
05:13:18.000 --> 05:13:34.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: or avenues to create opportunity
for community engagement and to adhere to the Brown Act, which I think is
an important aspect. So that there aren't deals and decisions being made
without an advisory body allowing you to make some insightful decisions.
05:13:34.000 --> 05:13:35.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you.

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05:13:35.000 --> 05:13:39.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.
Next, I will go back out to Zoom.
05:13:40.000 --> 05:13:43.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Dina, can you unmute yourself,
please?
05:13:42.000 --> 05:13:44.000
Dena Bliss: I can, thank you.
05:13:44.000 --> 05:13:46.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you. Can you see the timer?
05:13:46.000 --> 05:13:50.000
Dena Bliss: I cannot see the timer, but I don't think I'm going to take a
lot of time.
05:13:49.000 --> 05:13:51.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, go ahead, please.
05:13:50.000 --> 05:14:08.000
Dena Bliss: Having learned tonight that the ad hoc cannot include
community members, I want to urge you to establish either a standing
committee or to establish some kind of advisory body that includes the
community. This is a community rich in resources and intelligence.
05:14:08.000 --> 05:14:22.000
Dena Bliss: that would like to bring that intelligence and resource to
the table. So I would not like to see you come up with a decision that
excludes all of that expertise and willingness and urgent feeling within
the community. Thank you very much.
05:14:22.000 --> 05:14:28.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Dina, for your public
comment. Next, I'll come back into chambers, if there's anyone in
chambers that would like to make a public.
05:14:36.000 --> 05:14:47.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Hello. Hi, my name's Todd Swindell.
I spoke at the last, uh, City Council meeting as well on this issue. Um,
and I just, uh, again, I want to echo what a lot of other folks have
said, that, that, um…
05:14:47.000 --> 05:15:03.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The graffiti, getting into the
whole graffiti thing, I think, is distracting from the core issue here,
you know, which is, again, is about this racism and antisemitism and the
fact that these kids would feel so emboldened.
05:15:03.000 --> 05:15:20.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: to go out in public in the middle
of the day. And, you know, so there's been a lot of frustration,

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especially from the folks that lived across, you know, but, about not
being included in the other meetings. But we're here now, and I'm seeing
some things go on.
05:15:20.000 --> 05:15:35.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I just had a chance to kind of
scroll through the pages of stuff, and the stuff that's coming out for
safeway looks promising. But I don't really trust them. I mean, they're a
big corporation. They've had a chance to do something up to now. So
unless they put some actual teeth with that.
05:15:35.000 --> 05:15:51.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I don't really have very much hope
with them, but I just want to echo, I guess, this thing about trying to
come together as a community and really, you know, this is really scary
when kids come out and feel that they can say that it was right.
05:15:51.000 --> 05:16:06.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and spray painted on the back of
Safeway. And I think that a lot of people just feel these days, you know,
like, well, what can we do? Kids are this way, blah, blah, blah. You
know, I think about the kids, I think about the parents, and I think the
best thing we can do is bring this stuff out in the light, you know?
05:16:06.000 --> 05:16:23.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And so I guess really what I'm
saying is just making sure that the community members are involved
because this is a really big issue. It's not something that's going to be
fixed overnight. And we've got folks sitting here waiting until the very
end of the meeting just to come up and say a little bit. So obviously,
there's commitment.
05:16:23.000 --> 05:16:36.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you know, there's interest in
participation. So I just was hoping that we can move forward and making
sure that the community member and the residents are involved as well.
Thank you. Thank you for your public comment. Next, I'll go back out to
Zoom. Oliver, can you unmute yourself, please?
05:16:36.000 --> 05:16:56.000
Oliver: Yeah, just very quickly, thank you. Um, City of Sebastopol is
much too small to be taking something like this on. The county has all
kinds of, uh, bandwidth to handle this kind of thing, like the County
Office of Equity, Commission on Human Rights, so on and so forth. We're
tiny. I mean, racism is… and all the other issues are…
05:16:56.000 --> 05:17:14.000
Oliver: massive international problems, and the tiny little city like
this isn't going to have any bandwidth to make any meaningful impact on
this, except in an informal way. So, I would strongly suggest that we
push this up to the county and have them.
05:17:14.000 --> 05:17:23.000

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Oliver: use their resources to deal with this, rather than wasting a lot
of staff, um, time and council bandwidth. Thank you.
05:17:23.000 --> 05:17:27.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Oliver, for your public
comment. Next, I will come back into chambers.
05:17:30.000 --> 05:17:43.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, I just wanted to respond to
that last comment, because I think that it is even more important, since
we are a small community, that we deal with these issues, and…
05:17:43.000 --> 05:18:00.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: push them forward to try and come
together as a community and figure them out instead of saying, Oh, well,
this is a bigger issue. We need to go to the next person, because that's
exactly how these issues get ignored. That's exactly how people end up
getting hurt.
05:18:00.000 --> 05:18:17.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And I think that is really
important as a small community to say that we don't accept racism in our
community and that we're not going to stand for it. So yeah, I just
wanted to say that. And I also agree that we need to like make sure.
05:18:17.000 --> 05:18:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the community is involved and that
we all as neighbors are being told what's happening and what's going to
happen going forward.
05:18:26.000 --> 05:18:33.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.
Next, I'll go back out to Zoom. SP, can you unmute yourself, please?
05:18:35.000 --> 05:18:36.000
Sp: Can you hear me?
05:18:36.000 --> 05:18:39.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I can hear you. Can you see the
timer?
05:18:38.000 --> 05:18:40.000
Sp: I cannot, so hopefully I'll be…
05:18:39.000 --> 05:18:43.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, I will jump in when you have
about 30 seconds left. Go ahead, please.
05:18:42.000 --> 05:18:45.000
Sp: Hi, hello, this is Sean Paul. Um…
05:18:45.000 --> 05:18:57.000
Sp: It's good to hear for the city attorney, there's lots of resources
there for internal training, but I don't think the city council and our

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city, um, employees are really the issue. So, it's time you, and I'm sure
you do some training there.
05:18:57.000 --> 05:19:04.000
Sp: Um, police departments usually have some more training in this, and
especially if they have a community service officer, that's usually a
great place.
05:19:04.000 --> 05:19:15.000
Sp: I don't think the ad hoc committee is the right choice, because it
seems like it's really leaving it in with just a small group of people. I
think making this more of a larger community-based issue.
05:19:15.000 --> 05:19:16.000
Sp: Bring it up.
05:19:16.000 --> 05:19:27.000
Sp: and have the community involved, and having everyone coming together
somehow, um, seems more the right choice to try to put pressure on
Annalee and these young people.
05:19:27.000 --> 05:19:31.000
Sp: that this is not okay. That is not the right way to do things.
05:19:31.000 --> 05:19:38.000
Sp: Um, just having a small group from the city council, I don't think is
gonna have the effect, but a larger group of the city.
05:19:38.000 --> 05:19:42.000
Sp: Or the community saying, hey, no, we're not going to put up with this
anymore.
05:19:42.000 --> 05:19:47.000
Sp: that's, I think, the better way to go. So that's just my opinion. So,
thank you.
05:19:47.000 --> 05:19:54.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Jean-Paul. Next, I'll
come back into chambers, if there's anyone in chambers that would like to
make a public comment on this item.
05:19:59.000 --> 05:20:03.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I have to say I'm a little
confused, too, about.
05:20:04.000 --> 05:20:12.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: what your decision was, what I have
seen since I have been a part of this wonderful group is.
05:20:12.000 --> 05:20:14.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Teachers.
05:20:14.000 --> 05:20:17.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: community members showing up.

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05:20:17.000 --> 05:20:22.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Because they're seeing racism in
their community, and they want it to stop.
05:20:22.000 --> 05:20:25.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And what I really want to see is
this.
05:20:25.000 --> 05:20:32.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: City Council work with them to
provide ways forward.
05:20:32.000 --> 05:20:37.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That we can all work together,
because the willingness is amazing.
05:20:37.000 --> 05:20:40.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The skill is incredible.
05:20:40.000 --> 05:20:43.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And the wisdom is here.
05:20:43.000 --> 05:20:45.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And it's up to you to use it.
05:20:45.000 --> 05:20:49.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: However, you're going to do that, I
think you should use it.
05:20:49.000 --> 05:21:04.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: because what I've seen is
incredible. I'm so proud to know these people and to see them show up on
their own accord at Safeway at times when the kids are getting out of
school.
05:21:04.000 --> 05:21:21.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and report to each other because
they care about their neighbors and everyone else in this community, and
they don't want their neighbors to suffer, and neither do I, and I don't
think you do either. So I think that, however, you can make it happen.
Let's.
05:21:21.000 --> 05:21:23.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: work together.
05:21:23.000 --> 05:21:33.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and stop it now before it goes any
further. Nadine Burke Harris, by the way, who was at 1 point Surgeon
General of California.
05:21:33.000 --> 05:21:39.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: has tried to fight this issue in
the past and gotten nowhere. I don't want to.

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05:21:40.000 --> 05:21:47.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I do. I want to say, let's not get
involved in the bureaucratic trap.
05:21:47.000 --> 05:21:57.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: of well, we'll do this, and then
we'll do that. Let's get together and continue to work together on ways
to mitigate this problem.
05:21:58.000 --> 05:22:06.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.
Next, I will go out to Zoom, and just as a reminder, it is 28, so by
10:30, you will need to make a motion.
05:22:06.000 --> 05:22:12.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, moving forward or stopping the
meeting at 10.30. So, Lee, can you unmute yourself, please?
05:22:11.000 --> 05:22:13.000
Lee: Yes, can you hear me?
05:22:12.000 --> 05:22:15.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I can. Can you see the timer still?
05:22:14.000 --> 05:22:16.000
Lee: I can.
05:22:15.000 --> 05:22:17.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Great. Go ahead, please.
05:22:16.000 --> 05:22:25.000
Lee: This is a really important issue, not only here, but everywhere, and
a difficult issue.
05:22:26.000 --> 05:22:34.000
Lee: But the challenge for this group is, in a small city, to know what
you can control and what you cannot.
05:22:34.000 --> 05:22:51.000
Lee: you can easily direct staff to create a graffiti ordinance. They
know what to do. It'll come back on a schedule. That's what the city's
good at asking staff to work with schools, work with the community, reach
out to people in other cities. Build a a.
05:22:51.000 --> 05:23:00.000
Lee: The coalition of people that are the willing to move forward and
identify issues and steps that can be done is not in anyone's job
description.
05:23:00.000 --> 05:23:16.000
Lee: And I'm not being critical. The city's not strong in their history
of leadership on these kinds of issues because they don't have people on

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staff, trained, qualified, and with capacity to do that. It's not a, you
know, this isn't an issue that the city's going to solve.
05:23:16.000 --> 05:23:18.000
Lee: Um, but.
05:23:18.000 --> 05:23:28.000
Lee: Several people, Rob earlier on a different issue and a couple people
on this one have said there's lots of people here in Sebastopol that have
the expertise, know what to do, want to do it.
05:23:28.000 --> 05:23:40.000
Lee: it appears they just lack leadership. Um, and perhaps somebody on
the city council who's interested in this issue can take it on, um, in
their… in their citizen role. Um, and…
05:23:40.000 --> 05:23:51.000
Lee: pull together some people in this city who are interested in dealing
with this, and get it… get the ball rolling. And perhaps it can even
get enough of a life that it'll roll by itself.
05:23:51.000 --> 05:24:12.000
Lee: There is the issue of the graffiti ordinance which probably needs to
be addressed. There's also the issue. I think that there was a lot of
discomfort that the mayor and the police chief and the city manager were
meeting with people periodically with the school and the safe way on
issues, and the city council didn't know about it. Maybe that needs to be
addressed.
05:24:12.000 --> 05:24:21.000
Lee: Um, but I think, you know, the solution here is somebody take up the
banner and start the community moving forward. Thank you.
05:24:23.000 --> 05:24:26.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Sorry. Thank you, Lee, for your
public comment.
05:24:26.000 --> 05:24:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Before we go next, Speaker Merrick,
if we could get that. I was going to stop. Yeah, I was just going to say,
so we need to — so that people understand at 10:30 that meeting ends
unless everyone unanimously agrees to stay. So we all have to weigh in on
where we're at with that.
05:24:44.000 --> 05:24:48.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'll stay. I'm in.
05:24:48.000 --> 05:24:52.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'll stay, but I would also like a
call for, um…
05:24:52.000 --> 05:25:06.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: for the request for future council
items after this item is stopped to be included. I've got 10 min, because
I I literally, I need to be to work. So I just.
05:25:07.000 --> 05:25:22.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So so if we can finish that, I'm
willing to stay and put a position out really quickly about this. And
what are we done with public comment? We still have. She needs to finish.
Yeah. So if we can do it, let's do it.
05:25:22.000 --> 05:25:24.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay.
05:25:24.000 --> 05:25:25.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, okay.
05:25:26.000 --> 05:25:33.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Sorry. Thank you. So we'll continue
with public comment. Anyone in chambers that would like to make a public
comment?
05:25:41.000 --> 05:25:51.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, I want to thank everyone who's
put energy into this. I think it's really great, the idea of getting some
training, so you guys don't have to become experts, but can at least, um.
05:25:51.000 --> 05:26:07.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: learn how to talk about subjects
that are difficult to talk about for a lot of people, and be able to talk
to the people in your community. I hope that that goes through. I hope
that it's not just one year with the 2,500 grant. I hope it happens every
year. I hope the police and.
05:26:07.000 --> 05:26:12.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: everyone here can get it. I hope it
could be opened up to the community. I think it's very important.
05:26:12.000 --> 05:26:31.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um, I really would like to separate
this ordinance for graffiti. This is not anything that anyone has talked
about. We're talking about hate graffiti, we're talking about crimes. Um,
so if you want to do a graffiti thing, you know, separate it from this
whole situation, because that's not what anyone's asking for.
05:26:31.000 --> 05:26:32.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Um…
05:26:32.000 --> 05:26:44.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: we're asking for hate graffiti to
be taken seriously, to be dealt with fastly, and for outreach to the
people that were affected by it. Um, and…
05:26:45.000 --> 05:26:49.000

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm sorry, I didn't think I was
going to talk.
05:26:49.000 --> 05:26:56.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, I just really, I don't think
a graffiti audience would help at all, and I also think that.
05:26:56.000 --> 05:27:06.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: trainings would be great, and I
think that's a good start, but it's not actually just this incident. It's
gonna be, like, not if it happens again, it's gonna be when it happens
again, how is it gonna be dealt with?
05:27:06.000 --> 05:27:21.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: instead of community happened to
come to you guys, maybe something could come from you guys the second
that something like the next time this happens because it's going to
happen, and it could be worse next time. So I just think, thinking about.
05:27:21.000 --> 05:27:38.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: how to proceed in future
incidences, as well as making sure the community that was affected get
anything. Because right now, the people living across from that haven't
really gotten anything, and they don't feel safe. And so, work with the
people across the street from where the incident happened.
05:27:38.000 --> 05:27:43.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and then decide what's gonna
happen. Moving forward is what I I would like.
05:27:43.000 --> 05:27:49.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.
I will go out to Zoom. Katie, can you unmute yourself, please?
05:27:50.000 --> 05:27:52.000
Katie Heath: Hi! Um…
05:27:52.000 --> 05:28:08.000
Katie Heath: Hey, so I've heard like a lot of comments about how, you
know, it's not our problem and we can have Sonoma County kind of take
over. And I just wanted to offer a personal perspective on this. Okay.
05:28:08.000 --> 05:28:26.000
Katie Heath: So I like I moved out here in 2019 because my brother got
brain cancer. And one of the first things I was told about Sebastopol was
that I needed to worry because of my skin color that I was going to have
issues. That was one of the very first things I was told.
05:28:26.000 --> 05:28:41.000
Katie Heath: When my son started going to Parkside, he was teased because
of his skin color. He learned the word nigger at Parkside because of the
other students there as a child, as a baby.
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Katie Heath: My daughter went to Annaliese. She just graduated. She too
has been persistently bullied throughout her entire career as a straight
A student, never been in trouble, never done anything. This child is
amazing.
05:28:57.000 --> 05:29:12.000
Katie Heath: And she too had to endure that stress. This is not just
something that's like not happening in the community. It is happening and
it is affecting our children and it is traumatic and it is, it's very.
05:29:12.000 --> 05:29:28.000
Katie Heath: Disheartening when we walk down the street and we experience
microaggressions, when we have to see the racist graffiti, when we see,
you know, I mean, when we have to hear these things, it's very
disheartening. And I understand it doesn't happen to all of you.
05:29:28.000 --> 05:29:43.000
Katie Heath: you know, most… none… most of the people in the room
right now are not people of color, so this doesn't really affect you. But
it does affect me, and it does affect the other people in this community,
the 1% of the community.
05:29:43.000 --> 05:29:56.000
Katie Heath: that is of color. Um, and it's very disheartening, and I
would like to see a committee or something done, um, to make it stop.
It's a public health issue.
05:29:56.000 --> 05:30:03.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Katie, for your public
comment. Next, I will come back into chambers, if there's anyone in
chambers that would like to make a public comment.
05:30:03.000 --> 05:30:07.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I'll go back out to
Zoom. Wendy, can you unmute yourself, please.
05:30:10.000 --> 05:30:12.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you. Can you hear us?
05:30:16.000 --> 05:30:18.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Wendy, can you hear us?
05:30:26.000 --> 05:30:30.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Wendy, we are not hearing you. Can
you? Can you hear the.
05:30:30.000 --> 05:30:31.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Hear us okay?
05:30:36.000 --> 05:30:39.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Wendy, can you — there you go.
Can you hear us?
05:30:39.000 --> 05:30:41.000

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